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> This fixes only one of the problems caused by the immunity. Again, it's not immunity. It's sovereignty, which manifests as immunity (this distinction is impo

> This fixes only one of the problems caused by the immunity. Again, it's not immunity. It's sovereignty, which manifests as immunity (this distinction is important, it's like saying the problem is the smoke, and not the fire that causes it). The tribes are recognized as federal entities at the level of states. Any violation of that sovereignty has consequences. State universities and colleges for example own patents under similar laws. Also you probably can't strip their immunity without a constitutional convention and multiple 2/3 votes. Because it's sovereignty, it would be like voting whether California is still a state, or whether states can regulate the companies they incorporate. > And if we want to bring up past wrongs, that gets messy really fast. What tribe actually has a fair claim to the land they own that they didn't steal from some earlier tribe? Well often it isn't their ancestral land that they live on anymore anyway. But some tribal claims go back thousands of years one specific tribe near my hometown has been inhabiting the region for 8,000 years [0]. Not that I am claiming there was no violence, but there was a lasting culture, not unlike similar ancient city states, that stayed in the region. Our still existing government committed a genocide against these peoples. This isn't just about stealing their land, it's about breaking many many treaties, murdering them, sterilizing them, forcing them to abandon their culture, destroying their culture, and plenty of other terrible things. It's war taken to a different level. And you want to break another agreement through tyranny of the majority? Thank goodness it's way harder than that. If you really want to end corruption and abuse (of power; it's not like they are torturing anyone) around the tribes, convince them to trust us enough to give up those powers themselves. We have slowly been working on that trust in my hometown, it's a long road. Good luck. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Elwha_Klallam_Tribe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Elwha_Klallam_Tribe

BearGoesChirp 9y ago
>It's sovereignty, which manifests as immunity The immunity is the problem. If there are ways to fix the immunity while keeping the sovereignty then those would be potentials solutions. >But some tribal claims go back thousands of years one specific tribe near my hometown has been inhabiting the region for 8,000 years Maybe I missed it in the wikipedia article, but proof that village has been inhabited for millennia isn't proof that the same group had ownership the entire time. There are plenty of cities in Europe which one can look at to see this. Also, it didn't include the strong evidence of a lasting culture. >We have slowly been working on that trust in my hometown, it's a long road. Good luck. Sorry, I'm not one for standing by while abuse happens. If I ever get the chance to stop the abuse, I'll take it. If that means voting for someone who ends the immunity, so be it.
- SolarNet 9y ago
  > The immunity is the problem. If there are ways to fix the immunity while keeping the sovereignty then those would be potentials solutions. That effect, in this case, places like state universities. > Maybe I missed it in the wikipedia article, but proof that village has been inhabited for millennia isn't proof that the same group had ownership the entire time. There are plenty of cities in Europe which one can look at to see this. > Also, it didn't include the strong evidence of a lasting culture. They found an 8,000 year old site via the oral history of the tribe. The culture they passed down through oral tradition includes this site as a holy place, including it's location (that was submerged by the Elwha dams, so current elders had never visited it before). Archeologists found artifacts related to the use of the site as a place of worship dating back 8,000 years. This strongly implies the same culture has been using this site for worship for 8,000 years. If any other group did take over the village, their culture changed substantially enough to include this holy site, implying at least a merger, not a genocide. > Sorry, I'm not one for standing by while abuse happens. If I ever get the chance to stop the abuse, I'll take it. If that means voting for someone who ends the immunity, so be it. Then you are just going to encourage more abuse. You are trying to fix the symptom, not the problem. You probably still see a compromise in only voting for the two biggest parties. When both abuse their power.

BearGoesChirp 9y ago

>It's sovereignty, which manifests as immunity The immunity is the problem. If there are ways to fix the immunity while keeping the sovereignty then those would be potentials solutions. >But some tribal claims go back thousands of years one specific tribe near my hometown has been inhabiting the region for 8,000 years Maybe I missed it in the wikipedia article, but proof that village has been inhabited for millennia isn't proof that the same group had ownership the entire time. There are plenty of cities in Europe which one can look at to see this. Also, it didn't include the strong evidence of a lasting culture. >We have slowly been working on that trust in my hometown, it's a long road. Good luck. Sorry, I'm not one for standing by while abuse happens. If I ever get the chance to stop the abuse, I'll take it. If that means voting for someone who ends the immunity, so be it.

SolarNet 9y ago
> The immunity is the problem. If there are ways to fix the immunity while keeping the sovereignty then those would be potentials solutions. That effect, in this case, places like state universities. > Maybe I missed it in the wikipedia article, but proof that village has been inhabited for millennia isn't proof that the same group had ownership the entire time. There are plenty of cities in Europe which one can look at to see this. > Also, it didn't include the strong evidence of a lasting culture. They found an 8,000 year old site via the oral history of the tribe. The culture they passed down through oral tradition includes this site as a holy place, including it's location (that was submerged by the Elwha dams, so current elders had never visited it before). Archeologists found artifacts related to the use of the site as a place of worship dating back 8,000 years. This strongly implies the same culture has been using this site for worship for 8,000 years. If any other group did take over the village, their culture changed substantially enough to include this holy site, implying at least a merger, not a genocide. > Sorry, I'm not one for standing by while abuse happens. If I ever get the chance to stop the abuse, I'll take it. If that means voting for someone who ends the immunity, so be it. Then you are just going to encourage more abuse. You are trying to fix the symptom, not the problem. You probably still see a compromise in only voting for the two biggest parties. When both abuse their power.