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I said this statement in the MB electrification article https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15219469 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15219469 Electric ca

by S_A_P 9y ago

I said this statement in the MB electrification article https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15219469 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15219469 Electric cars need a battery tech that offers a "refuel experience" if they want to change the game. Ive seen things like solid battery tech that may offer something close to this. Im not anywhere near an expert on battery tech, but I can say as a car guy that mainstream adoption hinges on this. Once this battery tech exists, then there is the infrastructure problem of charging stations. Musk has started the process, but there is a very long way to go. We also should start thinking about standardizing or at least categorizing charging levels in an ELI5 way to the average user. Maybe this already exists, but I dont think so. It seems like you need to have something like: Level 1 charge(cheaper, lower power throughput, longer wait time). Level 2 charge(quicker charge more expensive). Level 3 charge(fastest, most expensive, if your car supports it, etc) that would roughly equate to the 3 options you have at a gas station and ease the adjustment to the differences. Maybe Im saying things that people already know, but I just see this as the barrier to adoption right now.

WorldMaker 9y ago
Chargers are already described by Levels: Level 1 is wall-outlet 120, Level 2 is "dryer outlet" 240, Level 3+ is "super-charger"/CHaDeMO. Most car displays show estimated charging times for each level in one way or another. "Refuel experience" is a red herring at best. Partly because the ubiquity of the electric grid means that you can charge anywhere: that's the subtle game changer that doesn't always come across when someone new to electric vehicles thinks about them. A Level 1 trickle charge while I'm asleep at home is plenty for my daily work commute. My car is parked nearly the same amount of time in my work parking lot: if the office park added a Level 1 or Level 2 charger next to the street lamp I park by I'd almost never need to charge at home. Road trips are definitely the exception to the daily grind, and are the place where you really want a good "refuel experience". I think Tesla's superchargers fit that fine, but obviously there's a range currently to people's road trip experience. (90% of 300+ miles in 30 minutes; that's about my bladder range and 30 minutes is a light snack, a good stretch, and a brief glance at Twitter or a chapter of a good book.) It might get better than that as battery tech changes, but let's face it that we're at a good enough start now that we should stop dismissing electric cars because you don't think they have a "refuel experience".
- S_A_P 9y ago
  Thanks for clarifying the charge levels. I do, however disagree on the refuel experience mainly because while it is true, that you can constantly refuel your car while it is parked at home, the long distance driving use case is exactly where electric recharging is least developed. I think that there is a certain level of comfort knowing that, in the US at least there are only a handful of places in the country where a stretch > 20 miles exists without the ability to refuel. For the most part I think most people active on HN are many times more willing to switch to electric cars. The average person on the street may not be so willing.
jhoechtl 9y ago
Yes the refuel experience as well as the total green balance (for the educated) is what is holding world dominance of the electric drivetrain back. I can litterly carry the energy needed for a 500 miles drive. What is the weight of the batteries I would need for a 500 miles ride? Additionally as I ride on gas the weight is consumed instead of transformed (gas is running out), yet a battery at 10% capacity still has its weight. Sure this behavior contributes to the environmental benefits of battery driven engines.

by S_A_P 9y ago

WorldMaker 9y ago

Chargers are already described by Levels: Level 1 is wall-outlet 120, Level 2 is "dryer outlet" 240, Level 3+ is "super-charger"/CHaDeMO. Most car displays show estimated charging times for each level in one way or another. "Refuel experience" is a red herring at best. Partly because the ubiquity of the electric grid means that you can charge anywhere: that's the subtle game changer that doesn't always come across when someone new to electric vehicles thinks about them. A Level 1 trickle charge while I'm asleep at home is plenty for my daily work commute. My car is parked nearly the same amount of time in my work parking lot: if the office park added a Level 1 or Level 2 charger next to the street lamp I park by I'd almost never need to charge at home. Road trips are definitely the exception to the daily grind, and are the place where you really want a good "refuel experience". I think Tesla's superchargers fit that fine, but obviously there's a range currently to people's road trip experience. (90% of 300+ miles in 30 minutes; that's about my bladder range and 30 minutes is a light snack, a good stretch, and a brief glance at Twitter or a chapter of a good book.) It might get better than that as battery tech changes, but let's face it that we're at a good enough start now that we should stop dismissing electric cars because you don't think they have a "refuel experience".

S_A_P 9y ago
Thanks for clarifying the charge levels. I do, however disagree on the refuel experience mainly because while it is true, that you can constantly refuel your car while it is parked at home, the long distance driving use case is exactly where electric recharging is least developed. I think that there is a certain level of comfort knowing that, in the US at least there are only a handful of places in the country where a stretch > 20 miles exists without the ability to refuel. For the most part I think most people active on HN are many times more willing to switch to electric cars. The average person on the street may not be so willing.

jhoechtl 9y ago

Yes the refuel experience as well as the total green balance (for the educated) is what is holding world dominance of the electric drivetrain back. I can litterly carry the energy needed for a 500 miles drive. What is the weight of the batteries I would need for a 500 miles ride? Additionally as I ride on gas the weight is consumed instead of transformed (gas is running out), yet a battery at 10% capacity still has its weight. Sure this behavior contributes to the environmental benefits of battery driven engines.