4 ms·

Harvard Professor Matt Welsh: Working for Google

58 points by rxin 16y ago

vibhavs 16y ago
As you can tell by the date, it's about a month old. He has a follow up blog post titled "First week at Google": http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2010/07/first-week-at-google.html http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2010/07/first-week-at-google.....
- ardit33 16y ago
  "There are few people over 40 wandering the halls. " -- Oh yeah. I wonder what happens to an engineer at google when he turns 40. Does he go to Valhalla or something?
  - nostrademons 16y ago
    He invents one of: a.) A programming language. b.) A distributed database.
  - mkramlich 16y ago
    watch the movie Logan's Run
Jun8 16y ago
What! And I was kinda angry with Google that after all my degrees they still consider me for "software engineering" position. This prof gets the same title. Hmm.
- pgbovine 16y ago
  iirc, almost every technical person there who does coding is a 'software engineer' ... even ken thompson, rob pike, guido, etc. EDIT: k nevermind about ken thompson and rob pike ... but there must be other big-shot hackers whose title is still 'software engineer'
  - Jun8 16y ago
    Yep. It's like calling Michelangelo a painter. It's true, but... AFAIK, their SW engineer positions have five levels, so not everybody's equal really.
    - ramchip 16y ago
      Well, if Michelangelo had a business card, I think he'd write "painter" or "artist" on it. There isn't much else to say. What should they be using besides "software engineer"?
      - ciupicri 16y ago
        Senior Software Engineer, Team Lead, Architect, CTO and many other buzzwords.
    - nostrademons 16y ago
      It's more than five levels. And there're titles for the levels above Senior Software Engineer, but many of the best programmers keep on using plain old "software engineer" because they'd rather be known by their code than by their titles. (Or they make jokes about them, eg. one that I know is officially titled a Principal Engineer, but goes by the title Engineer in Principle.)
  - vinutheraj 16y ago
    Ken Thompson and Rob Pike are designated as Distinguished Engineers - sources - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Thompson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Thompson http://research.google.com/people/r/index.html http://research.google.com/people/r/index.html
- mkelly 16y ago
  What about the title "software engineer" offends you? Would you not be engineering software? Does your title matter to you?
  - Jun8 16y ago
    It's not an offending title in itself. However, virtually all other companies I know of use that title for entry level positions, i.e. for positions that have very little or no initiative. Google's different stance causes confusion among PhDs that apply there, as I have heard from many friends who get irked by the SW engineer title.
    - teejae 16y ago
      Those who care about titles are those that should become politicians. I respect engineers for what they do, not for what they're called.
      - Jun8 16y ago
        Well, people look at titles not just because it boosts their ego: They usually show salary range you expect and the job function you will perform. A "software engineer" position's responsibility would differ greatly if you are applying to, say IBM Research or HP Labs as opposed to what Google takes it to mean.
- gaius 16y ago
  At my last job, where I was one of the few non-PhDs, everyone had the title software engineer. I think Bell Labs had it best, their only job title was "member of the technical staff". If it was good enough for them, it's good enough for anyone.
  - Jun8 16y ago
    I don't know titles used by Bell Labs in their old glory days but currently what you say is not correct: They have also distinguished member of technical staff and fellow titles, e.g. see http://www.colloquial.com/carp/mts.html http://www.colloquial.com/carp/mts.html. The titles "member of technical staff" or "member of research staff" used by most corporate labs sound better to PhD ears than "software engineer", I guess, although for some companies they mean (roughly) the same thing.
chadaustin 16y ago
[academia : toy boats in bathtubs :: industry : aircraft carriers] is the most memorable distinction between academia and industry I've heard. In the end, your slice of the pie will be as big as you can handle, but the overall size of the pie (and thus your percentage of control) determines whether you choose academia or startups or established companies.
- ryanwaggoner 16y ago
  At the risk of looking stupid, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that [academia : industry :: toy boats in bathtubs : aircraft carriers] ? I would read this aloud as: "academia is to industry as toy boats in bathtubs is to aircraft carriers", which seems to make more sense to me as an analogy. So do I have it right, do I not understand analogies, or do I not understand the notation you're using?
  - ehsanul 16y ago
    I read it as "if academia were toy boats, industry would be aircraft carriers." Edit - the blog post clears this up: The way I think of it, being in academia is a lot like building toy boats and playing with them in your bathtub. ... Whereas being at Google is like working on an aircraft carrier at sea.
    - shadowfox 16y ago
      Now I can see why mathematics is so formal
angelikajeri 16y ago
It seems that you've put a great amount of time into your article and I want a lot more of these on the internet these days. Well, anyways... it certainly was very informative for me. http://www.stocktrains.com http://www.stocktrains.com
gaius 16y ago
There are no portholes on the poop deck! Every sailor knows that :-)

58 points by rxin 16y ago

As you can tell by the date, it's about a month old. He has a follow up blog post titled "First week at Google": http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2010/07/first-week-at-google.html http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2010/07/first-week-at-google.....

ardit33 16y ago
"There are few people over 40 wandering the halls. " -- Oh yeah. I wonder what happens to an engineer at google when he turns 40. Does he go to Valhalla or something?
- nostrademons 16y ago
  He invents one of: a.) A programming language. b.) A distributed database.
- mkramlich 16y ago
  watch the movie Logan's Run

Jun8 16y ago

What! And I was kinda angry with Google that after all my degrees they still consider me for "software engineering" position. This prof gets the same title. Hmm.

pgbovine 16y ago
iirc, almost every technical person there who does coding is a 'software engineer' ... even ken thompson, rob pike, guido, etc. EDIT: k nevermind about ken thompson and rob pike ... but there must be other big-shot hackers whose title is still 'software engineer'
- Jun8 16y ago
  Yep. It's like calling Michelangelo a painter. It's true, but... AFAIK, their SW engineer positions have five levels, so not everybody's equal really.
  - ramchip 16y ago
    Well, if Michelangelo had a business card, I think he'd write "painter" or "artist" on it. There isn't much else to say. What should they be using besides "software engineer"?
    - ciupicri 16y ago
      Senior Software Engineer, Team Lead, Architect, CTO and many other buzzwords.
  - nostrademons 16y ago
    It's more than five levels. And there're titles for the levels above Senior Software Engineer, but many of the best programmers keep on using plain old "software engineer" because they'd rather be known by their code than by their titles. (Or they make jokes about them, eg. one that I know is officially titled a Principal Engineer, but goes by the title Engineer in Principle.)
- vinutheraj 16y ago
  Ken Thompson and Rob Pike are designated as Distinguished Engineers - sources - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Thompson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Thompson http://research.google.com/people/r/index.html http://research.google.com/people/r/index.html
mkelly 16y ago
What about the title "software engineer" offends you? Would you not be engineering software? Does your title matter to you?
- Jun8 16y ago
  It's not an offending title in itself. However, virtually all other companies I know of use that title for entry level positions, i.e. for positions that have very little or no initiative. Google's different stance causes confusion among PhDs that apply there, as I have heard from many friends who get irked by the SW engineer title.
  - teejae 16y ago
    Those who care about titles are those that should become politicians. I respect engineers for what they do, not for what they're called.
    - Jun8 16y ago
      Well, people look at titles not just because it boosts their ego: They usually show salary range you expect and the job function you will perform. A "software engineer" position's responsibility would differ greatly if you are applying to, say IBM Research or HP Labs as opposed to what Google takes it to mean.
gaius 16y ago
At my last job, where I was one of the few non-PhDs, everyone had the title software engineer. I think Bell Labs had it best, their only job title was "member of the technical staff". If it was good enough for them, it's good enough for anyone.
- Jun8 16y ago
  I don't know titles used by Bell Labs in their old glory days but currently what you say is not correct: They have also distinguished member of technical staff and fellow titles, e.g. see http://www.colloquial.com/carp/mts.html http://www.colloquial.com/carp/mts.html. The titles "member of technical staff" or "member of research staff" used by most corporate labs sound better to PhD ears than "software engineer", I guess, although for some companies they mean (roughly) the same thing.

chadaustin 16y ago

[academia : toy boats in bathtubs :: industry : aircraft carriers] is the most memorable distinction between academia and industry I've heard. In the end, your slice of the pie will be as big as you can handle, but the overall size of the pie (and thus your percentage of control) determines whether you choose academia or startups or established companies.

ryanwaggoner 16y ago
At the risk of looking stupid, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that [academia : industry :: toy boats in bathtubs : aircraft carriers] ? I would read this aloud as: "academia is to industry as toy boats in bathtubs is to aircraft carriers", which seems to make more sense to me as an analogy. So do I have it right, do I not understand analogies, or do I not understand the notation you're using?
- ehsanul 16y ago
  I read it as "if academia were toy boats, industry would be aircraft carriers." Edit - the blog post clears this up: The way I think of it, being in academia is a lot like building toy boats and playing with them in your bathtub. ... Whereas being at Google is like working on an aircraft carrier at sea.
  - shadowfox 16y ago
    Now I can see why mathematics is so formal

angelikajeri 16y ago

It seems that you've put a great amount of time into your article and I want a lot more of these on the internet these days. Well, anyways... it certainly was very informative for me. http://www.stocktrains.com http://www.stocktrains.com

gaius 16y ago

There are no portholes on the poop deck! Every sailor knows that :-)