5 ms·

> I had the budget to give them a top of the market rate. I didn't need the 10x developer just smart .Net developers. As "just a smart developer" how I read th

> I had the budget to give them a top of the market rate. I didn't need the 10x developer just smart .Net developers. As "just a smart developer" how I read this line: "I don't need a Ferrari, a Porsche would do, and I'm willing to pay Honda Accord prices for one"

scarface74 9y ago
You missed the part about for the right person, I had the budget to give them a top of the market rate. We aren't building self driving cars. At the end of the day we are doing basic CRUD. By "smart developers", I mean can pick up things fast, they don't have to know everything. I am a big proponent of the Joel "Smart and Get Things Done" filter when it comes to hiring (https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/10/25/the-guerrilla-guide-to-interviewing-version-30/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/10/25/the-guerrilla-guid...). My interviews are far more behavioral than "Describe all of the design patterns in the GoF book and write examples on the whiteboard"
- djb_hackernews 9y ago
  Right, a Honda Accord is a nice car to most people and could be interpreted as top of the market. Now, if your post said for the right person, I had a budget to give them $150k in Austin, TX then we'd be getting somewhere. "top of the market rate" is just too ambiguous in most experiences.
  - scarface74 9y ago
    I know my local market fairly well - it's a major metropolitan area that's not on the west coast . I'm still an in the trenches developer, I just have more team lead responsibility. Yes "top of the market" is $85 an hour as a W2 contractor. Using my rule of thumb - 1800 hour work year when contracting taking into account unpaid holidays, unpaid vacation and sick time, and gap between employment - that's a base pay rate of $153,000. More often than not, there will be more than 40 hours worth of billable work. I am fairly aggressive about my contract rate when I am contracting, and I would take that in a heartbeat. So yeah, all of the contractors that report to me make more than I do. For some strange reason, I'm okay with that.
    - dmoy 9y ago
      You can't compare contractor pay with salaried pay like that due to lack of benefits, etc. You'd have to lop off like $10k for extra taxes and a bunch for healthcare as well (could easily be $10k+). Maybe you know this, but it wasn't immediately clear since you didn't provide your own salary $.
      - j_s 9y ago
        The very very rough conversion for normal 1099 contracting is adding the K's worth of zeros to the hourly rate, eg. $85/hr ~= $85K salary. Apparently with a W2 this number is net whatever the agency skims while covering some things; not sure how that stacks up.
        scarface74 9y ago
        Let me clarify. The hourly rate I was referring to was what the contractor gets. Not what the agency gets. I tell the recruiter and my manager the offer I think we should make the person and let the higher ups negotiate the bill rates the agency will charge the company. I haven't been second guessed yet.
        Terretta 9y ago
        No, double the hourly rate plus zeros. 40 hours x 50 weeks = 2000 hours So just 2x and thousands.
        j_s 9y ago
        Here's examples on HN of others using the rule of thumb I shared, which is definitely conservative: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2185782 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2185782 (Feb 2011) > zipdog: $40/hr contract is about $40k/yr permanent https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2438980 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2438980 (Apr 2011) > techiferous: But remember that there is non-billable work (accounting, etc.) and a 15.3% self-employment tax. [...] Working as a consultant for $175/hour is similar to being employed at $175K/year. > danssig: Calling that pay rate $175K/yr is beyond conservative. NOTE: two users here also recommended your equation > slashcom: $x/hour * 40 hr/wk * 50 wk/yr = 2n1000 The general rule is always "times 2, add 3 zeros" > jurjenh: yes, this is generally the rule I use as well, take the hourly rate and double it and add a K (eg $30/hr = $60K) [...] Personally I use an estimate of about 75% efficiency > rapind: For 75% efficiency I assume you mean 3/4 * 2 * $175 * 1000 = $262,500 / year. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5299009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5299009 (May 2013) > artumi-richard: The rule of thumb I was told is 1000 billed hours per year. -- To try to be genuinely helpful: a discussion documenting that hourly rates are a bad idea vs. charging per day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5714930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5714930 (May 2013) > gknoy: If you're doing freelance, you also have to cover downtime, business development, benefits Here's the article since the discussion's link 404's: https://web.archive.org/web/20161210162901/https://alanhollis.com/my-first-year-freelancing/ https://web.archive.org/web/20161210162901/https://alanholli... > Charge More: > · Take the salary you’d want to earn as a full time employee. > · Double it. > · Divide your doubled salary by the amount of days you’d work as a regular employee. > · This is the minimum rate you should charge per day. And this seemed helpful too (mostly connecting for my own future reference at this point): Poll: long-term contractors, what is your hourly rate? | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5769348 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5769348 (May 2013)

scarface74 9y ago

You missed the part about for the right person, I had the budget to give them a top of the market rate. We aren't building self driving cars. At the end of the day we are doing basic CRUD. By "smart developers", I mean can pick up things fast, they don't have to know everything. I am a big proponent of the Joel "Smart and Get Things Done" filter when it comes to hiring (https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/10/25/the-guerrilla-guide-to-interviewing-version-30/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/10/25/the-guerrilla-guid...). My interviews are far more behavioral than "Describe all of the design patterns in the GoF book and write examples on the whiteboard"

djb_hackernews 9y ago
Right, a Honda Accord is a nice car to most people and could be interpreted as top of the market. Now, if your post said for the right person, I had a budget to give them $150k in Austin, TX then we'd be getting somewhere. "top of the market rate" is just too ambiguous in most experiences.
- scarface74 9y ago
  I know my local market fairly well - it's a major metropolitan area that's not on the west coast . I'm still an in the trenches developer, I just have more team lead responsibility. Yes "top of the market" is $85 an hour as a W2 contractor. Using my rule of thumb - 1800 hour work year when contracting taking into account unpaid holidays, unpaid vacation and sick time, and gap between employment - that's a base pay rate of $153,000. More often than not, there will be more than 40 hours worth of billable work. I am fairly aggressive about my contract rate when I am contracting, and I would take that in a heartbeat. So yeah, all of the contractors that report to me make more than I do. For some strange reason, I'm okay with that.
  - dmoy 9y ago
    You can't compare contractor pay with salaried pay like that due to lack of benefits, etc. You'd have to lop off like $10k for extra taxes and a bunch for healthcare as well (could easily be $10k+). Maybe you know this, but it wasn't immediately clear since you didn't provide your own salary $.
    - j_s 9y ago
      The very very rough conversion for normal 1099 contracting is adding the K's worth of zeros to the hourly rate, eg. $85/hr ~= $85K salary. Apparently with a W2 this number is net whatever the agency skims while covering some things; not sure how that stacks up.
      - scarface74 9y ago
        Let me clarify. The hourly rate I was referring to was what the contractor gets. Not what the agency gets. I tell the recruiter and my manager the offer I think we should make the person and let the higher ups negotiate the bill rates the agency will charge the company. I haven't been second guessed yet.
      - Terretta 9y ago
        No, double the hourly rate plus zeros. 40 hours x 50 weeks = 2000 hours So just 2x and thousands.
        j_s 9y ago
        Here's examples on HN of others using the rule of thumb I shared, which is definitely conservative: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2185782 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2185782 (Feb 2011) > zipdog: $40/hr contract is about $40k/yr permanent https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2438980 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2438980 (Apr 2011) > techiferous: But remember that there is non-billable work (accounting, etc.) and a 15.3% self-employment tax. [...] Working as a consultant for $175/hour is similar to being employed at $175K/year. > danssig: Calling that pay rate $175K/yr is beyond conservative. NOTE: two users here also recommended your equation > slashcom: $x/hour * 40 hr/wk * 50 wk/yr = 2n1000 The general rule is always "times 2, add 3 zeros" > jurjenh: yes, this is generally the rule I use as well, take the hourly rate and double it and add a K (eg $30/hr = $60K) [...] Personally I use an estimate of about 75% efficiency > rapind: For 75% efficiency I assume you mean 3/4 * 2 * $175 * 1000 = $262,500 / year. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5299009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5299009 (May 2013) > artumi-richard: The rule of thumb I was told is 1000 billed hours per year. -- To try to be genuinely helpful: a discussion documenting that hourly rates are a bad idea vs. charging per day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5714930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5714930 (May 2013) > gknoy: If you're doing freelance, you also have to cover downtime, business development, benefits Here's the article since the discussion's link 404's: https://web.archive.org/web/20161210162901/https://alanhollis.com/my-first-year-freelancing/ https://web.archive.org/web/20161210162901/https://alanholli... > Charge More: > · Take the salary you’d want to earn as a full time employee. > · Double it. > · Divide your doubled salary by the amount of days you’d work as a regular employee. > · This is the minimum rate you should charge per day. And this seemed helpful too (mostly connecting for my own future reference at this point): Poll: long-term contractors, what is your hourly rate? | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5769348 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5769348 (May 2013)