4 ms·

I am not a diehard android, but i'm replying to you from a LineageOS phone without the Gapps, using microg as an alternative to the google services, and firefox

I am not a diehard android, but i'm replying to you from a LineageOS phone without the Gapps, using microg as an alternative to the google services, and firefox as a browser. Privacy is achievable on Android. However, I do agree it os very involved.

lern_too_spel 9y ago
The services provided by Gapps that send data to Google (push messaging, aGPS, crash reporting, app installs, safe browsing, etc.) also exist on iOS with exactly the same privacy policies. The only difference is that you can remove or disable them on Android devices if you are paranoid, while no such remedy exists on iPhones. By your standards, privacy is achievable with difficulty on Android and not at all on iOS.
- phs318u 9y ago
  There is another, more fundamental difference. With Apple, you are the customer. With Google, you are the product.
  - lern_too_spel 9y ago
    Yet this "fundamental difference" does not change the fact that both companies' devices provide exactly the same amount of privacy out of the box, while only the Google device is truly yours to put whatever software you want on it, down to the OS.
    - phs318u 9y ago
      I trust the vendor whose primary revenue stream comes from me, rather than the one whose primary revenue stream is me (or my private data). I trust Google to abide by their T&C's about as much as I trust the NSA to abide by the laws governing the extent of their actions. Which is to say, precisely none. You can argue until you're blue in the face but Apple have little to no incentive to exploit my private data while Google have every incentive to do so.
      - lern_too_spel 9y ago
        I understand your position now. You're a conspiracy theorist. Google and Apple have exactly the same incentive to exploit your private data — money. They also have exactly the same disincentive to disobeying their privacy policies — lawsuits and bad press leading to loss of money.
    - themihai 9y ago
      The Google device is NOT truly yours because you have to look for cracks if you want to root it or remove the Google stuff. The law may also be against you if you crack it. You are just a guest on your device...you are "licensed" to use it just like you get license to play music on spotify, watch movies on netflix etc...nothing is owned anymore and very few people care.
      - roblabla 9y ago
        This is not true on the actual Google devices (Nexus and Pixel lines) that have a supported path to flash your own rom, and root. Google so far has been supportive of the custom rom community. Some manufacturers (cough samsung cough) have not.
      - vurpo 9y ago
        Many Android devices, including all the ones that Google make and sell themselves, Sony devices, Motorola devices, have an officially supported path to running any code you want on YOUR own device. Usually that path is: boot the phone into bootloader mode, plug it into a computer, run `fastboot oem unlock`, accept the warning that this will void your warranty, then `fastboot flash <image file to flash>`. An officially documented and supported way to do exactly what you want with the device that you own. Yes, it voids your warranty, but it's not forbidden or illegal in any way.
        pdimitar 9y ago
        Sure. That's why Magisk exists, right? Because OEMs have nothing against you rooting your device. At all. They are perfectly okay with it. Please. Actions speak louder than words, I am sure you would agree with that.
        lern_too_spel 9y ago
        We were discussing Google devices and Apple devices. All Google phones have an unlockable bootloader.
- Gaelan 9y ago
  Safe Browsing and Crash Reporting can be turned off with no repercussions. You can turn off location altogether, though I'm not sure if you can turn off aGPS only. That leaves app installs (Android allows side loading) and push messaging (I'm not sure about this one) as the ones that you can't disable on iOS.
  - lorenzhs 9y ago
    But please think twice before turning off safe browsing! Contrary to what some seem to believe, it doesn't send your entire browsing history to Google. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9779990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9779990 for an explanation.
    - Gaelan 9y ago
      Good reminder.

lern_too_spel 9y ago

The services provided by Gapps that send data to Google (push messaging, aGPS, crash reporting, app installs, safe browsing, etc.) also exist on iOS with exactly the same privacy policies. The only difference is that you can remove or disable them on Android devices if you are paranoid, while no such remedy exists on iPhones. By your standards, privacy is achievable with difficulty on Android and not at all on iOS.

phs318u 9y ago
There is another, more fundamental difference. With Apple, you are the customer. With Google, you are the product.
- lern_too_spel 9y ago
  Yet this "fundamental difference" does not change the fact that both companies' devices provide exactly the same amount of privacy out of the box, while only the Google device is truly yours to put whatever software you want on it, down to the OS.
  - phs318u 9y ago
    I trust the vendor whose primary revenue stream comes from me, rather than the one whose primary revenue stream is me (or my private data). I trust Google to abide by their T&C's about as much as I trust the NSA to abide by the laws governing the extent of their actions. Which is to say, precisely none. You can argue until you're blue in the face but Apple have little to no incentive to exploit my private data while Google have every incentive to do so.
    - lern_too_spel 9y ago
      I understand your position now. You're a conspiracy theorist. Google and Apple have exactly the same incentive to exploit your private data — money. They also have exactly the same disincentive to disobeying their privacy policies — lawsuits and bad press leading to loss of money.
  - themihai 9y ago
    The Google device is NOT truly yours because you have to look for cracks if you want to root it or remove the Google stuff. The law may also be against you if you crack it. You are just a guest on your device...you are "licensed" to use it just like you get license to play music on spotify, watch movies on netflix etc...nothing is owned anymore and very few people care.
    - roblabla 9y ago
      This is not true on the actual Google devices (Nexus and Pixel lines) that have a supported path to flash your own rom, and root. Google so far has been supportive of the custom rom community. Some manufacturers (cough samsung cough) have not.
    - vurpo 9y ago
      Many Android devices, including all the ones that Google make and sell themselves, Sony devices, Motorola devices, have an officially supported path to running any code you want on YOUR own device. Usually that path is: boot the phone into bootloader mode, plug it into a computer, run `fastboot oem unlock`, accept the warning that this will void your warranty, then `fastboot flash <image file to flash>`. An officially documented and supported way to do exactly what you want with the device that you own. Yes, it voids your warranty, but it's not forbidden or illegal in any way.
      - pdimitar 9y ago
        Sure. That's why Magisk exists, right? Because OEMs have nothing against you rooting your device. At all. They are perfectly okay with it. Please. Actions speak louder than words, I am sure you would agree with that.
        lern_too_spel 9y ago
        We were discussing Google devices and Apple devices. All Google phones have an unlockable bootloader.
Gaelan 9y ago
Safe Browsing and Crash Reporting can be turned off with no repercussions. You can turn off location altogether, though I'm not sure if you can turn off aGPS only. That leaves app installs (Android allows side loading) and push messaging (I'm not sure about this one) as the ones that you can't disable on iOS.
- lorenzhs 9y ago
  But please think twice before turning off safe browsing! Contrary to what some seem to believe, it doesn't send your entire browsing history to Google. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9779990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9779990 for an explanation.
  - Gaelan 9y ago
    Good reminder.