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They could add a "duress passcode", with an alternate reality of data. I don't expect them to, but it's possible. Bitcoin hardware wallets have this kind of f

They could add a "duress passcode", with an alternate reality of data. I don't expect them to, but it's possible. Bitcoin hardware wallets have this kind of feature to help avoid wrench attacks.

eridius 9y ago
Lying to a federal agent is a crime. Edit: No seriously. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements. Refusing to unlock your device is one thing. Claiming that you did unlock it but in fact just used a "duress passcode" is a lie and can land you in jail.
- isostatic 9y ago
  Has the 5th amendment been officially repealed?and the 4th?
  - eridius 9y ago
    The 5th amendment does not protect you from lying. And the 4th has nothing to do with lying either.
    - eli 9y ago
      And neither necessarily applies at a border crossing
- jitl 9y ago
  Beating a human is a crime.
- earenndil 9y ago
  This makes me wonder something. I know that while they can't force you to enter your passcode, they can force you to unlock with your fingerprint. I've heard people ask for a feature where you basically have a "duress fingerprint," since fingerprint is already different than password, would using a duress fingerprint be acceptable?
  - eridius 9y ago
    If you're instructed to unlock the phone with your finger, and your "duress fingerprint" unlocks fake data, then you're misrepresenting that fake data as the real data and would presumably be considered to be making a false statement (though this is just speculation on my part). On the other hand, a "duress fingerprint" that locks out TouchID wouldn't be misrepresenting anything. But it wouldn't surprise me if they could still get you in trouble some other way for knowingly locking out the device after it's been confiscated.
    - ianai 9y ago
      That would be the technical equivalent to the fifth amendment.
      - eridius 9y ago
        The 5th amendment says you can refuse to incriminate yourself. It does not say you can lie. Refusing to unlock your phone would be equivalent. Unlocking fake data would not.
  - drawnwren 9y ago
    I believe if you tap the power button 5 times on the iPhone, it disables fingerprint unlock. Perfect for a scenario where you are afraid you might be compelled to fingerprint.
    - lathiat 9y ago
      This is apparently an upcoming feature in iOS12 but doesn't work in iOS11 now What does work is putting the wrong finger on your sensor until it tells you TouchID is disabled and needs your passcode (which is 5 times) or rebooting your device without logging in.
- grecy 9y ago
  So don't lie about it. "I just entered my duress pass code, the device is now wiped". Can they charge you with destruction of evidence when they have no idea if/what evidence was on the phone?
  - hvidgaard 9y ago
    I'm pretty sure they can. And they will probably successfully argue that since you did destroy evidence, you were hiding something.
  - dymk 9y ago
    How do you honestly think that will go down for you or anybody else that tries it, telling a federal officer that you just destroyed the thing they asked you to open?
  - nly 9y ago
    If you're willing to destroy the data to prevent it being read, why not just wipe the phone before you leave and restore it from an encrypted online backup when you arrive?
    - Mithaldu 9y ago
      Arriving with "empty phone" has also caused refusal of permission to enter in the past.

They could add a "duress passcode", with an alternate reality of data. I don't expect them to, but it's possible. Bitcoin hardware wallets have this kind of feature to help avoid wrench attacks.

eridius 9y ago

Lying to a federal agent is a crime. Edit: No seriously. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements. Refusing to unlock your device is one thing. Claiming that you did unlock it but in fact just used a "duress passcode" is a lie and can land you in jail.

isostatic 9y ago
Has the 5th amendment been officially repealed?and the 4th?
- eridius 9y ago
  The 5th amendment does not protect you from lying. And the 4th has nothing to do with lying either.
  - eli 9y ago
    And neither necessarily applies at a border crossing
jitl 9y ago
Beating a human is a crime.
earenndil 9y ago
This makes me wonder something. I know that while they can't force you to enter your passcode, they can force you to unlock with your fingerprint. I've heard people ask for a feature where you basically have a "duress fingerprint," since fingerprint is already different than password, would using a duress fingerprint be acceptable?
- eridius 9y ago
  If you're instructed to unlock the phone with your finger, and your "duress fingerprint" unlocks fake data, then you're misrepresenting that fake data as the real data and would presumably be considered to be making a false statement (though this is just speculation on my part). On the other hand, a "duress fingerprint" that locks out TouchID wouldn't be misrepresenting anything. But it wouldn't surprise me if they could still get you in trouble some other way for knowingly locking out the device after it's been confiscated.
  - ianai 9y ago
    That would be the technical equivalent to the fifth amendment.
    - eridius 9y ago
      The 5th amendment says you can refuse to incriminate yourself. It does not say you can lie. Refusing to unlock your phone would be equivalent. Unlocking fake data would not.
- drawnwren 9y ago
  I believe if you tap the power button 5 times on the iPhone, it disables fingerprint unlock. Perfect for a scenario where you are afraid you might be compelled to fingerprint.
  - lathiat 9y ago
    This is apparently an upcoming feature in iOS12 but doesn't work in iOS11 now What does work is putting the wrong finger on your sensor until it tells you TouchID is disabled and needs your passcode (which is 5 times) or rebooting your device without logging in.
grecy 9y ago
So don't lie about it. "I just entered my duress pass code, the device is now wiped". Can they charge you with destruction of evidence when they have no idea if/what evidence was on the phone?
- hvidgaard 9y ago
  I'm pretty sure they can. And they will probably successfully argue that since you did destroy evidence, you were hiding something.
- dymk 9y ago
  How do you honestly think that will go down for you or anybody else that tries it, telling a federal officer that you just destroyed the thing they asked you to open?
- nly 9y ago
  If you're willing to destroy the data to prevent it being read, why not just wipe the phone before you leave and restore it from an encrypted online backup when you arrive?
  - Mithaldu 9y ago
    Arriving with "empty phone" has also caused refusal of permission to enter in the past.