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Allowing side loading of apps would not impact usability in anyway. Edit: It would massively increase the usability, allowing any apps to be installed, not jus

Allowing side loading of apps would not impact usability in anyway. Edit: It would massively increase the usability, allowing any apps to be installed, not just Apple approved apps, making the phone more usable to many people. Back in the day I had to buy a dev account just to load an emulator I wanted to use (it was open source) without rooting.

dkonofalski 9y ago
That is objectively untrue. Every system that has allowed sideloading of apps has been compromised by that very feature.
- StavrosK 9y ago
  "Every society that has been allowed to drive cars has had car accidents." I know the risks, I want to do it anyway. I don't want a nanny over my head.
  - braythwayt 9y ago
    That may be a better analogy than you intend. The problem with cars is that everyone suffers the consequences of your driving. In fact, you may have the least exposure to the carbon monoxide, pollution, or even accident risk. Pedestrians, cyclists, property owners, and other drivers are all at risk of your driving. For that reason, societies tightly regulate car ownership and driving. More so than phones: I don’t need a license to use a phone, nor do I have to register my ownership or have it regularly inspected. But technology these days has this same characteristic: Others bear the costs of your decision. Every device connected to the internet is a DDOS vector. I don’t want you deciding whether to keep your device up to date with the latest security patches, because if you (and a few million others) don’t, GitHub is down for me.
    - StavrosK 9y ago
      So, are you doing the responsible thing and not using a laptop, or any device that's vulnerable, like a router?
  - melse 9y ago
    Bear in mind that the vast vast majority of apple's customers have 0 interest in sideloading apps- if you're apple it makes a great deal of sense to trade off security for the masses against a few power users who can't sideload apps occasionally here and there
  - tinus_hn 9y ago
    A compromise doesn't affect you, it affects Apple and the app developers. iOS has the best apps because it has people buying them instead of everyone and his brother pirating. Anyway, if you don't want to deal with how an iPhone works, how about buying a different phone.
taormina 9y ago
But can ruin your privacy guarantees.
- mikeash 9y ago
  How? Sideloaded apps would still be sandboxed.
  - eropple 9y ago
    Sideloaded apps make attacks on non-sideloaded stuff a lot easier.
    - mikeash 9y ago
      Not to sound like a broken record, but, how?
  - kitsunesoba 9y ago
    It's more than just sandboxing: Apps going through the App Store have to meet a stringent set of requirements, chiefly being no private API usage, no circumvention of features intended to give the user control/privacy, and no third party web engines (and all the performance and security implications that come with those). Apple regularly rejects apps that violate the first two, and while I'm sure some get through they tend to get buried by scores of more legitimate alternatives. Sideloaded apps get to bypass all of this. If they ever do offer sideloading/gatekeeper, it should be turned off by default and turning it on should make the risks crystal clear with a scary alert and passcode prompt. Average folks should be heavily discouraged against using it. Gatekeeper works on the Mac, but iOS devices are both far more numerous and far more personal, so the stakes are much higher.
    - mikeash 9y ago
      Apple's checks are not very deep. They suffice to keep honest people honest but do little against an actual adversary.
jsjohnst 9y ago
Technically, they do. You just have to pay more for it (aka buying a developer account).
- madeofpalk 9y ago
  Actually you don't even need to pay for it these days. Free Apple Developer accounts can side load apps through Xcode
  - jack1243star 9y ago
    You need to pay for the Mac to use Xcode though...
    - madeofpalk 9y ago
      Correct. You need to own a computer to run computer software.
      - mixedCase 9y ago
        An Apple computer. To run Mac software. That's what you probably meant.
        jsjohnst 9y ago
        You don't have to own an Apple computer to run Mac software, so your statement is factually false and his isn't.
        mixedCase 9y ago
        Legally.
      - StavrosK 9y ago
        No, you need to own an Apple computer to install things on your phone. I don't need a computer to install APKs on Android.

dkonofalski 9y ago

That is objectively untrue. Every system that has allowed sideloading of apps has been compromised by that very feature.

StavrosK 9y ago
"Every society that has been allowed to drive cars has had car accidents." I know the risks, I want to do it anyway. I don't want a nanny over my head.
- braythwayt 9y ago
  That may be a better analogy than you intend. The problem with cars is that everyone suffers the consequences of your driving. In fact, you may have the least exposure to the carbon monoxide, pollution, or even accident risk. Pedestrians, cyclists, property owners, and other drivers are all at risk of your driving. For that reason, societies tightly regulate car ownership and driving. More so than phones: I don’t need a license to use a phone, nor do I have to register my ownership or have it regularly inspected. But technology these days has this same characteristic: Others bear the costs of your decision. Every device connected to the internet is a DDOS vector. I don’t want you deciding whether to keep your device up to date with the latest security patches, because if you (and a few million others) don’t, GitHub is down for me.
  - StavrosK 9y ago
    So, are you doing the responsible thing and not using a laptop, or any device that's vulnerable, like a router?
- melse 9y ago
  Bear in mind that the vast vast majority of apple's customers have 0 interest in sideloading apps- if you're apple it makes a great deal of sense to trade off security for the masses against a few power users who can't sideload apps occasionally here and there
- tinus_hn 9y ago
  A compromise doesn't affect you, it affects Apple and the app developers. iOS has the best apps because it has people buying them instead of everyone and his brother pirating. Anyway, if you don't want to deal with how an iPhone works, how about buying a different phone.

taormina 9y ago

But can ruin your privacy guarantees.

mikeash 9y ago
How? Sideloaded apps would still be sandboxed.
- eropple 9y ago
  Sideloaded apps make attacks on non-sideloaded stuff a lot easier.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Not to sound like a broken record, but, how?
- kitsunesoba 9y ago
  It's more than just sandboxing: Apps going through the App Store have to meet a stringent set of requirements, chiefly being no private API usage, no circumvention of features intended to give the user control/privacy, and no third party web engines (and all the performance and security implications that come with those). Apple regularly rejects apps that violate the first two, and while I'm sure some get through they tend to get buried by scores of more legitimate alternatives. Sideloaded apps get to bypass all of this. If they ever do offer sideloading/gatekeeper, it should be turned off by default and turning it on should make the risks crystal clear with a scary alert and passcode prompt. Average folks should be heavily discouraged against using it. Gatekeeper works on the Mac, but iOS devices are both far more numerous and far more personal, so the stakes are much higher.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Apple's checks are not very deep. They suffice to keep honest people honest but do little against an actual adversary.

jsjohnst 9y ago

Technically, they do. You just have to pay more for it (aka buying a developer account).

madeofpalk 9y ago
Actually you don't even need to pay for it these days. Free Apple Developer accounts can side load apps through Xcode
- jack1243star 9y ago
  You need to pay for the Mac to use Xcode though...
  - madeofpalk 9y ago
    Correct. You need to own a computer to run computer software.
    - mixedCase 9y ago
      An Apple computer. To run Mac software. That's what you probably meant.
      - jsjohnst 9y ago
        You don't have to own an Apple computer to run Mac software, so your statement is factually false and his isn't.
        mixedCase 9y ago
        Legally.
    - StavrosK 9y ago
      No, you need to own an Apple computer to install things on your phone. I don't need a computer to install APKs on Android.