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"God" in 12-step groups is not much more than simply the idea that you are not God, and something out there might be able to help you. Beyond that, "God" can be

by bdamm 9y ago

"God" in 12-step groups is not much more than simply the idea that you are not God, and something out there might be able to help you. Beyond that, "God" can be the tree outside, the earth, Christian/Jewish/Muslim God, oceans, whatever. For me it is not self deception. I did not create the world, and it will not cease to exist when I die.

logfromblammo 9y ago
At one time, I lost the plot. On my way back, and as an essential part of my recovery, I lost the ability to believe the lies I told myself to temporarily feel better about the crappy situation I was in. If your god is not an actual flesh-and-blood person, it is you projecting yourself onto an inanimate object or intangible idea. I am not certain how it helps to do that sort of ventriloquism act, but apparently it does for some people. If you are that sort of person, a 12-step program might work for you. But I don't think it has ever been proven to work better than any other type of addiction recovery program, and the few studies that have been done generally support that hypothesis. I am not a psychologist, but I don't think it is healthy to form intentional communities around a single commonality that is regarded by the group to be a critical and unrepairable flaw, and cement them together with quasi-religious traditions and proselytizing. But everyone is free to address their own problems in whatever manner they see fit. Veterans of 12-step programs will be certain to tell you that it worked for them, because that is the 12th step. They will not tell you that it is not based on evidence, only that it worked for the people that it worked for. It doesn't really matter, if you can make some new friends there. You can deceive yourself into believing that your self-deception is not self-deception. You can also beat yourself at chess. What is the point?
- vanderreeah 9y ago
  The point is to effect a separation from self-harming habits that are far more dangerous to your general well-being than believing that "inanimate objects or intangible ideas" may be interconnected in ways our small perspective on the world is unable to perceive.

by bdamm 9y ago

logfromblammo 9y ago

At one time, I lost the plot. On my way back, and as an essential part of my recovery, I lost the ability to believe the lies I told myself to temporarily feel better about the crappy situation I was in. If your god is not an actual flesh-and-blood person, it is you projecting yourself onto an inanimate object or intangible idea. I am not certain how it helps to do that sort of ventriloquism act, but apparently it does for some people. If you are that sort of person, a 12-step program might work for you. But I don't think it has ever been proven to work better than any other type of addiction recovery program, and the few studies that have been done generally support that hypothesis. I am not a psychologist, but I don't think it is healthy to form intentional communities around a single commonality that is regarded by the group to be a critical and unrepairable flaw, and cement them together with quasi-religious traditions and proselytizing. But everyone is free to address their own problems in whatever manner they see fit. Veterans of 12-step programs will be certain to tell you that it worked for them, because that is the 12th step. They will not tell you that it is not based on evidence, only that it worked for the people that it worked for. It doesn't really matter, if you can make some new friends there. You can deceive yourself into believing that your self-deception is not self-deception. You can also beat yourself at chess. What is the point?

vanderreeah 9y ago
The point is to effect a separation from self-harming habits that are far more dangerous to your general well-being than believing that "inanimate objects or intangible ideas" may be interconnected in ways our small perspective on the world is unable to perceive.