4 ms·

Is there a direct lineage from Calvinism to the prosperity stuff?

humanrebar 9y ago
It goes farther back. People have long thought, "The gods favor people with wealth and power". And similarly that people have thought certain acts (prayers, rituals, spells, sacrifices) would get the gods to do what they wanted. There's a logic to it since that's pretty much how people work. Prosperity theology attempts to fit that approach into the words of the Bible. It generally relies on out of context quotes, fallacious logic, and errors of omission (John the Baptist ate bugs, Jesus couch surfed, the apostles did chores to earn their keep) to make its case. The New Testament is clearly on the record against showy religious displays, ritual-based theology, and status symbols.
- narrator 9y ago
  Jesus said "the poor you will always have with you". Matthew 26:11. So according to Jesus poor people are just going to be around no matter what. The problem of economic inequality is not solveable.
  - photojosh 9y ago
    > Jesus said "the poor you will always have with you". Matthew 26:11. So according to Jesus poor people are just going to be around no matter what. The problem of economic inequality is not solveable. That's ripping a small quote completely out of its context, and neglecting to point out that because it's not completely solveable doesn't mean that we shouldn't try... and to try is an emphasis of much of the gospels. Here's the context: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+26%3A6-13%2CMark+14%3A3-9%2CJohn+12%3A1-8&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+26%3A6-... Reading the 3 parallel stories and noting that Judas was the instigator of the complaint according to John, suggests rather strongly that JC was pointing out the hypocrisy of a man whinging about perfume spilled when "He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it." Sounds just like these prosperity gospel megachurches, actually.
    - narrator 9y ago
      It is certainly open to interpretation, but is it fair to say thst Jesus also was against all the buying of various animal's for sacrifice that was common to Judaism at the time because he didn't believe that the commercial aspect of buying and selling these sacrifices for forgiveness was holy? Having read the bible, the amount of burnt offerings and sin offerings and the meticulous cataloging of offenses requiring such offerings struck me as very central to the old testament and the Levitical law that goes with it.
      - photojosh 9y ago
        Not sure if it was the selling itself or the profiteering that was the problem; I lean towards the latter. IIRC Jesus didn't say anything directly, but Hebrews 10:4 is pretty direct on it: "It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." It is indeed fascinating to contrast the ritualism of the Old Testament to the anti-ritualism of the New.
- amag 9y ago
  Yup, it's interesting that the two things Jesus seems to preach the most about is (paraphrased somewhat) do not judge others and do not be a rich dude.

It goes farther back. People have long thought, "The gods favor people with wealth and power". And similarly that people have thought certain acts (prayers, rituals, spells, sacrifices) would get the gods to do what they wanted. There's a logic to it since that's pretty much how people work. Prosperity theology attempts to fit that approach into the words of the Bible. It generally relies on out of context quotes, fallacious logic, and errors of omission (John the Baptist ate bugs, Jesus couch surfed, the apostles did chores to earn their keep) to make its case. The New Testament is clearly on the record against showy religious displays, ritual-based theology, and status symbols.

narrator 9y ago
Jesus said "the poor you will always have with you". Matthew 26:11. So according to Jesus poor people are just going to be around no matter what. The problem of economic inequality is not solveable.
- photojosh 9y ago
  > Jesus said "the poor you will always have with you". Matthew 26:11. So according to Jesus poor people are just going to be around no matter what. The problem of economic inequality is not solveable. That's ripping a small quote completely out of its context, and neglecting to point out that because it's not completely solveable doesn't mean that we shouldn't try... and to try is an emphasis of much of the gospels. Here's the context: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+26%3A6-13%2CMark+14%3A3-9%2CJohn+12%3A1-8&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+26%3A6-... Reading the 3 parallel stories and noting that Judas was the instigator of the complaint according to John, suggests rather strongly that JC was pointing out the hypocrisy of a man whinging about perfume spilled when "He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it." Sounds just like these prosperity gospel megachurches, actually.
  - narrator 9y ago
    It is certainly open to interpretation, but is it fair to say thst Jesus also was against all the buying of various animal's for sacrifice that was common to Judaism at the time because he didn't believe that the commercial aspect of buying and selling these sacrifices for forgiveness was holy? Having read the bible, the amount of burnt offerings and sin offerings and the meticulous cataloging of offenses requiring such offerings struck me as very central to the old testament and the Levitical law that goes with it.
    - photojosh 9y ago
      Not sure if it was the selling itself or the profiteering that was the problem; I lean towards the latter. IIRC Jesus didn't say anything directly, but Hebrews 10:4 is pretty direct on it: "It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." It is indeed fascinating to contrast the ritualism of the Old Testament to the anti-ritualism of the New.
amag 9y ago
Yup, it's interesting that the two things Jesus seems to preach the most about is (paraphrased somewhat) do not judge others and do not be a rich dude.