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I'm not surprised to see a study that confirms censorship works as intended, just more concerned about the future societal structure we're building. I grew up

by dahdum 9y ago

I'm not surprised to see a study that confirms censorship works as intended, just more concerned about the future societal structure we're building. I grew up with free speech as the ideal. Free information, free speech, and freedom in general. Reddit itself was about that at the beginning. That zeitgeist is gone now - I just hope praising free speech doesn't become "hate speech" before I pass.

matt4077 9y ago
> I grew up with free speech was the ideal. You must have grown up in a very strange time & place, because it's almost certain that in any reasonable definition, the freedom to speak and publish, and to reach an audience, is much larger today than ever before.
- gnarbarian 9y ago
  unless of course your registrar doesn't like you: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/08/14/1344239/godaddy-expels-neo-nazi-site-over-article-on-charlottesville-victim https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/08/14/1344239/godaddy-exp...
  - Ar-Curunir 9y ago
    Yes, because Nazis and murderers are the last group of people that deserve an open platform.
    - DoofusOfDeath 9y ago
      > murderers So, pro-choicers? (See what I did there?)
      - Ar-Curunir 9y ago
        In this case the person literally ran over another walking talking person. How exactly are you justifying giving a platofrm to a person who supports doing these things with a Nazi rationale?
        gnarbarian 9y ago
        One person did that. Just like one AntiFa asshole hit a guy with a bike lock. You can't take one action committed once by an individual and use it as a cudgel to eliminate speech you find distasteful.
jmull 9y ago
You call it censorship. But to what extent is Reddit -- or any person or organizationan -- required to provide a platform for speech or expressions they find abhorant or contrary to their values? Would it be OK with you if I put a bumper sticker on your car? "Silence hate speech!" or "Jews will not replace me!" or whatever it is that you might find uncomfortable?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- jmull 9y ago
  So... if you downvote this to make it grey out or disappear, doesn't that mean you think it's OK to supresss ideas on a public forum you don't agree with? Heh.
  - mulmen 9y ago
    My understanding of HN votes is that they are supposed to reflect the quality of the contribution to the conversation, not agreement or disagreement.
    - jmull 9y ago
      Sure. Then the question simply becomes whether it's OK to suppress ideas on a public forum because they are deemed by some to be a low-quality contribution. It seems to me this is dancing around semantics to avoid the question, especially considering the problematic nature of the distinction between something that one considers low-quality vs. something one disagrees with.
      - mulmen 9y ago
        They're fundamentally different questions. I have conversations with a lot of people on a lot of topics, some of those conversations are more substantive than others. Even if I disagree with someone it's easy to tell when a new idea has been presented and how well it has been articulated. My understanding of this voting system is that we are meant to use it to encourage meaningful conversation, not to motivate our own agenda. Is it possible to abuse this system? Of course it is. That's why I am engaging you in this conversation to perpetuate the idea that the voting system is actually a meta-vote about the quality of the conversation.
dionian 9y ago
I thought the point of censoring hate speech was not to purify content but to prevent actual violence etc from occurring.... have we seen a decrease in violence against fat people since 2015? If not, I’m not sure what was really accomplished other than a slightly less annoying site...
eighthnate 9y ago
The promise of the internet, like the promise of reddit, google, facebook, etc seems to be dying right before our eyes. It's quite eye opening how powerful the supporters of censorship have gotten.
- psyc 9y ago
  There is a contingent that is very interested in re-decentralizing the Internet. There's also a boom in building (or claiming you intend to build?) a decentralized crypto layer on top of the Internet. I don't know whether this will ultimately succeed, but at least the dream is still alive in some form.

by dahdum 9y ago

matt4077 9y ago

> I grew up with free speech was the ideal. You must have grown up in a very strange time & place, because it's almost certain that in any reasonable definition, the freedom to speak and publish, and to reach an audience, is much larger today than ever before.

gnarbarian 9y ago
unless of course your registrar doesn't like you: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/08/14/1344239/godaddy-expels-neo-nazi-site-over-article-on-charlottesville-victim https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/08/14/1344239/godaddy-exp...
- Ar-Curunir 9y ago
  Yes, because Nazis and murderers are the last group of people that deserve an open platform.
  - DoofusOfDeath 9y ago
    > murderers So, pro-choicers? (See what I did there?)
    - Ar-Curunir 9y ago
      In this case the person literally ran over another walking talking person. How exactly are you justifying giving a platofrm to a person who supports doing these things with a Nazi rationale?
      - gnarbarian 9y ago
        One person did that. Just like one AntiFa asshole hit a guy with a bike lock. You can't take one action committed once by an individual and use it as a cudgel to eliminate speech you find distasteful.

jmull 9y ago

You call it censorship. But to what extent is Reddit -- or any person or organizationan -- required to provide a platform for speech or expressions they find abhorant or contrary to their values? Would it be OK with you if I put a bumper sticker on your car? "Silence hate speech!" or "Jews will not replace me!" or whatever it is that you might find uncomfortable?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
jmull 9y ago
So... if you downvote this to make it grey out or disappear, doesn't that mean you think it's OK to supresss ideas on a public forum you don't agree with? Heh.
- mulmen 9y ago
  My understanding of HN votes is that they are supposed to reflect the quality of the contribution to the conversation, not agreement or disagreement.
  - jmull 9y ago
    Sure. Then the question simply becomes whether it's OK to suppress ideas on a public forum because they are deemed by some to be a low-quality contribution. It seems to me this is dancing around semantics to avoid the question, especially considering the problematic nature of the distinction between something that one considers low-quality vs. something one disagrees with.
    - mulmen 9y ago
      They're fundamentally different questions. I have conversations with a lot of people on a lot of topics, some of those conversations are more substantive than others. Even if I disagree with someone it's easy to tell when a new idea has been presented and how well it has been articulated. My understanding of this voting system is that we are meant to use it to encourage meaningful conversation, not to motivate our own agenda. Is it possible to abuse this system? Of course it is. That's why I am engaging you in this conversation to perpetuate the idea that the voting system is actually a meta-vote about the quality of the conversation.

dionian 9y ago

I thought the point of censoring hate speech was not to purify content but to prevent actual violence etc from occurring.... have we seen a decrease in violence against fat people since 2015? If not, I’m not sure what was really accomplished other than a slightly less annoying site...

eighthnate 9y ago

The promise of the internet, like the promise of reddit, google, facebook, etc seems to be dying right before our eyes. It's quite eye opening how powerful the supporters of censorship have gotten.

psyc 9y ago
There is a contingent that is very interested in re-decentralizing the Internet. There's also a boom in building (or claiming you intend to build?) a decentralized crypto layer on top of the Internet. I don't know whether this will ultimately succeed, but at least the dream is still alive in some form.