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This is interesting as I've typically made friends along lines of interest. I guess my next question would be are genetically similar people more likely to hav

This is interesting as I've typically made friends along lines of interest. I guess my next question would be are genetically similar people more likely to have similar interests. edit: corrected grammer

fatjokes 9y ago
> I guess my next question would be are genetically people that have genetic similarities more likely to have similar interests. If that is the case, it would lead to the politically uncomfortable question of different genders or ethnic groups being more likely to have particular interests.
- corporateslave2 9y ago
  But you aren't aloud to talk about that openly.
  - bdamm 9y ago
    Counterpoint: Here we are, talking about it openly. Even Mr. Damore who previously was employed at Google was and is able to talk about it openly.
    - corporateslave3 9y ago
      he was fired?
      - bdamm 9y ago
        Free speech doesn't mean you get to keep your job when you say it. It means it isn't illegal or impossible to speak your opinion. That doesn't mean being as ass has no consequences.
        nv-vn 9y ago
        I disagree but even leaving that comment aside, the OP is saying you aren't allowed to talk about it openly. "Allowed" does not imply a government here, but society/employers/etc. If your employer fires you for saying "fuck", clearly you aren't allowed to say "fuck" at work.
    - kemerover 9y ago
      "Openly" as in "anonymously through the Internet"
      - dqpb 9y ago
        Ideas deserve to rise or fall independent of the people who utter them.
  - jakobegger 9y ago
    It’s obvious that gender and genetics have an effect on interests. I doubt that anybody challenges that, and you can go talk about that without anyone raising an eyebrow. What is a problem is if you use that to justify discrimination. Just because members of a demographic are statistically different, it isn’t okay to treat individuals differently because they belong to a certain demographic. And that’s what people are complaining about! People don’t complain when you say: “A lot of the fastest marathon runners are from Kenia”. People will complain if you use that fact to justify an imbalance in your workforce: “Well, it’s obvious that we hire only people from Kenia since marathons show they are much faster!” So why do companies fire people who say stuff like that? Because discrimination is stupid from a business point of view: variance within demographics is much larger than variance of the mean between demographics. So if you hire people based on them being part of a “good” demographic, you will end up with worse hires than if you actually selected for individual aptitude.
    - corporateslave2 9y ago
      I don't mean to start a flame war here, but when you say: People don’t complain when you say: “A lot of the fastest marathon runners are from Kenia”. People will complain if you use that fact to justify an imbalance in your workforce: “Well, it’s obvious that we hire only people from Kenia since marathons show they are much faster!” This is precisely the point. If objectively they are better, why is it discrimination to only hire them? Definitely you give everyone the opportunity to work for you, but if a singular group always performs better, is it really your fault? And if society did determine that it was your fault, how long could that go on for? Forever? How long can that charade last? Hasn't a Darwinian economy (capitalism) done the best ever for man kind (massively raised standards of living over the last 200 years).
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - govg 9y ago
        One thing you might be mixing up is population vs individual. If you hold some sort of hiring process where the skill tested is similar to that tested in marathon running, then yes, Kenyans will tend to do better as a population. That does not mean you should actively discourage everyone else from applying. Your process should be blind to race/class of applicants, if some race/class does show a higher affinity towards specific skills, that will be the natural outcome of your process. TL;DR - Don't hire only Kenyans, that's discrimination. You might end up with a lot of Kenyans if you hire only marathoners, but that's not the same.
- flatline 9y ago
  I think it's trivially obvious that they do? The uncomfortable questions are whether people are genetically predisposed to, or naturally have a greater aptitude for, some particular interest, particularly on racial or gender lines. For many physical activities this is a settled question for gender, but that's about all we know. Even this alone is not necessarily controversial, the problem as we've seen time and again is that the reaults of such a study are taken as a basis for discrimination. If we could rigorously quantify and prove a statement like "people of East Asian descent show a 2.3% greater aptitude for mathematics," it doesn't mean that the Chinese guy sitting in front of you has any such aptitude. Historically the metrics by which we have attempted to measure such things have been deeply flawed and biased. I'm not sure it will ever be possible to make such assertions in any rigorous manner, the factors behind cognitive tasks are just too complex.
  - ForRealsies 9y ago
    2.3% greater aptitude for mathematics? Better spot the other races 50 points on the SAT.
    - c517402 9y ago
      They only report scores up to 800, so adding 50 to my 920 isn't really doing anything for me.
  - theoh 9y ago
    Homophily is the term used to describe this phenomenon of groups forming on the basis of some kind of affinity (in the broadest sense): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily
  - RivieraKid 9y ago
    > The uncomfortable questions are whether people are genetically predisposed to, or naturally have a greater aptitude for, some particular interest, particularly on racial or gender lines. The answer is obvious here: yes. The only question is the size of the effect.
- abra_kadabra 9y ago
  I'm not sure that you could extrapolate to that wide an audience. One of the largest factors would have to be exposure to that interest, if you aren't exposed to it, then you can't know if you enjoy it (Nurture). In small groups that are already interested in something, finding genetic similarity would mean that their nature is similar, and that nurture has also had an opportunity to take effect. So small groups of people interested in something, can't necessarily be extrapolated to a larger group.
  - PeterisP 9y ago
    Sure you can, you just need to make an appropriate study - e.g. if you compare how similar are the expressed interests in identical twins vs nonidentical twins vs ordinary siblings vs nonrelated children adopted as babies (who all share the same environment), then you can measure the nature/nurture split; if the interests of identical twins are just as similar as siblings, then that's evidence that interests are determined solely by nurture, but if identical twins have significantly more similar interests than genetically nonidentical twins (which IMHO was the case, but I'm not going to look for the studies) then that would be evidence that at least part of these differences are innate.
- foldr 9y ago
  Ethnic groups are defined by appearance and cultural history, not by genes. Many ethnic groups (e.g. African Americans) are extremely diverse genetically.
  - theWatcher37 9y ago
    >by appearance not genes I'm sorry, but genes clearly determine appearance.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > I'm sorry, but genes clearly determine appearance. Genes, along with other factors, contribute to appearance, but it is possible to be (for a pair of humans) relatively close in appearance and generically dissimilar, or vice versa. Genetic similarity and appearance similarity aren't the same thing.
  - canoebuilder 9y ago
    If you're talking about the fact that many African Americans are about 20% European genetically, but many share "hip hop culture" or African American culture, or whatever, that seems somewhat of a contrived point and it's not clear exactly what the point is you're meaning to make. If your talking about the often vaunted genetic diversity on the continent of Africa, that has no bearing on the existence of clusters of relative genetic similarity around the world we have come to refer to variously as ethnicity, race, population group, etc. In fact that African genetic diversity supports the reality of distinct population groups and ethnicities because it is a bunch of genetic material that other groups don't have. The very basis for ethnicity/race/population groups is a genomic "alphabet"/string within certain bounds. In considering the global level distinctions between populations it makes no difference the level of genetic diversity in any particular group. The defining factor is that various groups share traits that no other group does. Asians and Europeans have stretches of DNA that we've determined through the magic of modern science come from an extinct species of human called Neanderthals. None of these stretches of DNA are found in Africans. Likewise, Africans have stretches of DNA that come from as yet identified extinct species, these stretches of DNA aren't found in Asians or Europeans. Then of course there are the myriad other genetic structures that while having origins in the ancestors of all living humans have nonetheless diverged through the process of evolution over the millennia into reliable genetic markers for the various population groups. And it is true that ethnic groups are defined as well by visual appearance, for example cranium shape and size, nostril diameter, length of nasal bridge, hair color/texture etc. but these things aren't the result of members of your culture gathering around at your birth and molding these things like clay, these things are encoded in genes and what molded their shape into your genes are evolutionary pressures in your ancestral environment.
- danans 9y ago
  The shared interest groups most people are involved in in their regular lives are far too small to make any extrapolation to the larger population. Also, for many human traits (i.e height), the intra-population variation is much greater than the inter-population variance, especially when controlling for the effect of environment. We have a tendency to anchor our biases on the extreme examples of any population when we form our biases, often through mediums like elite/pro sports which select those at the extremes.
  - ebfd 9y ago
    >Also, for many human traits (i.e height), the intra-population variation is much greater than the inter-population variance, especially when controlling for the effect of environment. All this means is that >0 members of population B have more of the trait than >0 members of population A. It doesn't at all discredit the notion that members of population A tend to have more of the trait.
- trumpownsyou420 9y ago
  uncomfortable? maybe if you're a racist SJW cuck.

fatjokes 9y ago

> I guess my next question would be are genetically people that have genetic similarities more likely to have similar interests. If that is the case, it would lead to the politically uncomfortable question of different genders or ethnic groups being more likely to have particular interests.

corporateslave2 9y ago
But you aren't aloud to talk about that openly.
- bdamm 9y ago
  Counterpoint: Here we are, talking about it openly. Even Mr. Damore who previously was employed at Google was and is able to talk about it openly.
  - corporateslave3 9y ago
    he was fired?
    - bdamm 9y ago
      Free speech doesn't mean you get to keep your job when you say it. It means it isn't illegal or impossible to speak your opinion. That doesn't mean being as ass has no consequences.
      - nv-vn 9y ago
        I disagree but even leaving that comment aside, the OP is saying you aren't allowed to talk about it openly. "Allowed" does not imply a government here, but society/employers/etc. If your employer fires you for saying "fuck", clearly you aren't allowed to say "fuck" at work.
  - kemerover 9y ago
    "Openly" as in "anonymously through the Internet"
    - dqpb 9y ago
      Ideas deserve to rise or fall independent of the people who utter them.
- jakobegger 9y ago
  It’s obvious that gender and genetics have an effect on interests. I doubt that anybody challenges that, and you can go talk about that without anyone raising an eyebrow. What is a problem is if you use that to justify discrimination. Just because members of a demographic are statistically different, it isn’t okay to treat individuals differently because they belong to a certain demographic. And that’s what people are complaining about! People don’t complain when you say: “A lot of the fastest marathon runners are from Kenia”. People will complain if you use that fact to justify an imbalance in your workforce: “Well, it’s obvious that we hire only people from Kenia since marathons show they are much faster!” So why do companies fire people who say stuff like that? Because discrimination is stupid from a business point of view: variance within demographics is much larger than variance of the mean between demographics. So if you hire people based on them being part of a “good” demographic, you will end up with worse hires than if you actually selected for individual aptitude.
  - corporateslave2 9y ago
    I don't mean to start a flame war here, but when you say: People don’t complain when you say: “A lot of the fastest marathon runners are from Kenia”. People will complain if you use that fact to justify an imbalance in your workforce: “Well, it’s obvious that we hire only people from Kenia since marathons show they are much faster!” This is precisely the point. If objectively they are better, why is it discrimination to only hire them? Definitely you give everyone the opportunity to work for you, but if a singular group always performs better, is it really your fault? And if society did determine that it was your fault, how long could that go on for? Forever? How long can that charade last? Hasn't a Darwinian economy (capitalism) done the best ever for man kind (massively raised standards of living over the last 200 years).
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - govg 9y ago
      One thing you might be mixing up is population vs individual. If you hold some sort of hiring process where the skill tested is similar to that tested in marathon running, then yes, Kenyans will tend to do better as a population. That does not mean you should actively discourage everyone else from applying. Your process should be blind to race/class of applicants, if some race/class does show a higher affinity towards specific skills, that will be the natural outcome of your process. TL;DR - Don't hire only Kenyans, that's discrimination. You might end up with a lot of Kenyans if you hire only marathoners, but that's not the same.
flatline 9y ago
I think it's trivially obvious that they do? The uncomfortable questions are whether people are genetically predisposed to, or naturally have a greater aptitude for, some particular interest, particularly on racial or gender lines. For many physical activities this is a settled question for gender, but that's about all we know. Even this alone is not necessarily controversial, the problem as we've seen time and again is that the reaults of such a study are taken as a basis for discrimination. If we could rigorously quantify and prove a statement like "people of East Asian descent show a 2.3% greater aptitude for mathematics," it doesn't mean that the Chinese guy sitting in front of you has any such aptitude. Historically the metrics by which we have attempted to measure such things have been deeply flawed and biased. I'm not sure it will ever be possible to make such assertions in any rigorous manner, the factors behind cognitive tasks are just too complex.
- ForRealsies 9y ago
  2.3% greater aptitude for mathematics? Better spot the other races 50 points on the SAT.
  - c517402 9y ago
    They only report scores up to 800, so adding 50 to my 920 isn't really doing anything for me.
- theoh 9y ago
  Homophily is the term used to describe this phenomenon of groups forming on the basis of some kind of affinity (in the broadest sense): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily
- RivieraKid 9y ago
  > The uncomfortable questions are whether people are genetically predisposed to, or naturally have a greater aptitude for, some particular interest, particularly on racial or gender lines. The answer is obvious here: yes. The only question is the size of the effect.
abra_kadabra 9y ago
I'm not sure that you could extrapolate to that wide an audience. One of the largest factors would have to be exposure to that interest, if you aren't exposed to it, then you can't know if you enjoy it (Nurture). In small groups that are already interested in something, finding genetic similarity would mean that their nature is similar, and that nurture has also had an opportunity to take effect. So small groups of people interested in something, can't necessarily be extrapolated to a larger group.
- PeterisP 9y ago
  Sure you can, you just need to make an appropriate study - e.g. if you compare how similar are the expressed interests in identical twins vs nonidentical twins vs ordinary siblings vs nonrelated children adopted as babies (who all share the same environment), then you can measure the nature/nurture split; if the interests of identical twins are just as similar as siblings, then that's evidence that interests are determined solely by nurture, but if identical twins have significantly more similar interests than genetically nonidentical twins (which IMHO was the case, but I'm not going to look for the studies) then that would be evidence that at least part of these differences are innate.
foldr 9y ago
Ethnic groups are defined by appearance and cultural history, not by genes. Many ethnic groups (e.g. African Americans) are extremely diverse genetically.
- theWatcher37 9y ago
  >by appearance not genes I'm sorry, but genes clearly determine appearance.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > I'm sorry, but genes clearly determine appearance. Genes, along with other factors, contribute to appearance, but it is possible to be (for a pair of humans) relatively close in appearance and generically dissimilar, or vice versa. Genetic similarity and appearance similarity aren't the same thing.
- canoebuilder 9y ago
  If you're talking about the fact that many African Americans are about 20% European genetically, but many share "hip hop culture" or African American culture, or whatever, that seems somewhat of a contrived point and it's not clear exactly what the point is you're meaning to make. If your talking about the often vaunted genetic diversity on the continent of Africa, that has no bearing on the existence of clusters of relative genetic similarity around the world we have come to refer to variously as ethnicity, race, population group, etc. In fact that African genetic diversity supports the reality of distinct population groups and ethnicities because it is a bunch of genetic material that other groups don't have. The very basis for ethnicity/race/population groups is a genomic "alphabet"/string within certain bounds. In considering the global level distinctions between populations it makes no difference the level of genetic diversity in any particular group. The defining factor is that various groups share traits that no other group does. Asians and Europeans have stretches of DNA that we've determined through the magic of modern science come from an extinct species of human called Neanderthals. None of these stretches of DNA are found in Africans. Likewise, Africans have stretches of DNA that come from as yet identified extinct species, these stretches of DNA aren't found in Asians or Europeans. Then of course there are the myriad other genetic structures that while having origins in the ancestors of all living humans have nonetheless diverged through the process of evolution over the millennia into reliable genetic markers for the various population groups. And it is true that ethnic groups are defined as well by visual appearance, for example cranium shape and size, nostril diameter, length of nasal bridge, hair color/texture etc. but these things aren't the result of members of your culture gathering around at your birth and molding these things like clay, these things are encoded in genes and what molded their shape into your genes are evolutionary pressures in your ancestral environment.
danans 9y ago
The shared interest groups most people are involved in in their regular lives are far too small to make any extrapolation to the larger population. Also, for many human traits (i.e height), the intra-population variation is much greater than the inter-population variance, especially when controlling for the effect of environment. We have a tendency to anchor our biases on the extreme examples of any population when we form our biases, often through mediums like elite/pro sports which select those at the extremes.
- ebfd 9y ago
  >Also, for many human traits (i.e height), the intra-population variation is much greater than the inter-population variance, especially when controlling for the effect of environment. All this means is that >0 members of population B have more of the trait than >0 members of population A. It doesn't at all discredit the notion that members of population A tend to have more of the trait.
trumpownsyou420 9y ago
uncomfortable? maybe if you're a racist SJW cuck.