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They utilize a system whereby they have convinced people that the level of their prosperity is related to the love and favor that god has for them, they also al

They utilize a system whereby they have convinced people that the level of their prosperity is related to the love and favor that god has for them, they also always praise the wealthy for their generous donations to the church and always bemoan the other congregation to work towards becoming wealthy quoting scriptures in contexts that supports their claim e.g ["we are overcoming","the children of god shall inherit the earth","god is wealthy so we must all be too"] e.t.c. Now what do you think happens after this sort of conditioning, well those who are not wealthy want to become wealthy by force and those who have want to donate more than their peers to be praised and exalted in front of their same peers, the sad part of it all is they always end up praising corrupt politicians, fraudsters and people with suspicious source of wealth. I pretty much stopped caring about it all after getting tired of always having to put on my best clothes to church every Sunday so as not to be looked down upon by others or hearing how i didn't give enough to god and should do better every service. It all just stopped being important plus i discovered other things to focus my time on and also became an atheist, but sadly members of my family still believe in those stuffs though.

vezycash 9y ago
You sound like a young guy because it wasn't long ago that the biggest churches preached "holiness" above all. Indeed one of their favorite bible quotes was, "It's easier for a donkey to pass through an eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven." Redeemed Christian church only started asking for tithes in recent years. Adeboye didn't want members to feel burdened. His words, "God said I'm blocking blessings of members by not telling them to pay tithe." As for your cloth experience, boo hoo. Sounds like someone who has bad experiences with one or two members of the opposite sex and concludes that ALL men, ALL women are... Are there criminals, lazy bums disguised as pastors. Yes, just last week alone I read of a Nigerian pastor who raped a pregnant woman, one who slept with a 12 year old, an animal who slit the throat of the young son of a member, another who duped a woman into donating her jeep to him and many more. But that can be said of the Nigerian police, lecturers... Even the freakin president. The first lady was carrying his child at 12 years of age. http://www.nairaland.com/2111800/mrs-aisha-buhari-9-10 http://www.nairaland.com/2111800/mrs-aisha-buhari-9-10 So... Be an atheist if you like, but be rational, and objective in your arguments.
humanrebar 9y ago
Ah. That's called "prosperity theology" or "prosperity gospel" in Western Christianity. Joel Osteen, Paula White, and others also subscribe to that in varying ways and to varying degrees. It's worth noting that Western Christianity largely opposes that sort of teaching. To the point of throwing the word "heresy" around, which might not sound like much to outsiders, but mainstream Western Christians prefer to be theologically circumspect to a fault. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology#Criticism
- armenarmen 9y ago
  Is there a direct lineage from Calvinism to the prosperity stuff?
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    It goes farther back. People have long thought, "The gods favor people with wealth and power". And similarly that people have thought certain acts (prayers, rituals, spells, sacrifices) would get the gods to do what they wanted. There's a logic to it since that's pretty much how people work. Prosperity theology attempts to fit that approach into the words of the Bible. It generally relies on out of context quotes, fallacious logic, and errors of omission (John the Baptist ate bugs, Jesus couch surfed, the apostles did chores to earn their keep) to make its case. The New Testament is clearly on the record against showy religious displays, ritual-based theology, and status symbols.
    - narrator 9y ago
      Jesus said "the poor you will always have with you". Matthew 26:11. So according to Jesus poor people are just going to be around no matter what. The problem of economic inequality is not solveable.
      - photojosh 9y ago
        > Jesus said "the poor you will always have with you". Matthew 26:11. So according to Jesus poor people are just going to be around no matter what. The problem of economic inequality is not solveable. That's ripping a small quote completely out of its context, and neglecting to point out that because it's not completely solveable doesn't mean that we shouldn't try... and to try is an emphasis of much of the gospels. Here's the context: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+26%3A6-13%2CMark+14%3A3-9%2CJohn+12%3A1-8&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+26%3A6-... Reading the 3 parallel stories and noting that Judas was the instigator of the complaint according to John, suggests rather strongly that JC was pointing out the hypocrisy of a man whinging about perfume spilled when "He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it." Sounds just like these prosperity gospel megachurches, actually.
southphillyman 9y ago
In America this is called "prosperity preaching" and is very popular in the black community, which also happens to be the demographic most affected by poverty in the United States.
- humanrebar 9y ago
  Do you have any numbers on that? I don't sense a particular racial component to prosperity preaching in America. I have heard that it's particularly popular in developing countries, though, for what it's worth. That's not to say there aren't many, many prosperity gospel megachurches in the U.S., but they're not especially prominent compared to evangelical, catholic, or mainstream protestant ones.
  - burkaman 9y ago
    I hadn't heard that either, but here's one survey: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/dxmhuwj6r1/tabs_OPI_Televangelists_20150826.pdf https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/docume...
    - humanrebar 9y ago
      Thanks for digging that up! It seems like there's a significant racial trend in that survey. Though it's still a small minority of black respondents that give answers in line with prosperity gospel. Though that may itself may be misleading since prosperity preachers will say things like "wealth is not a sign of God's favor" while teaching tricks (prayers, phrases, "seed offerings") for getting God to favor you with money, good relationships, and health.
  - coliveira 9y ago
    Prosperity gospel is very popular in Brazil, in fact many politicians are now paying lip service for churches of this kind. Some of the largest new churches in Brazil are prosperity gospel churches, like the IURD of Edir Macedo, the richest Brazilian pastor according to Forbes, and owner of a bank and the 2nd largest (secular) TV network.

vezycash 9y ago

You sound like a young guy because it wasn't long ago that the biggest churches preached "holiness" above all. Indeed one of their favorite bible quotes was, "It's easier for a donkey to pass through an eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven." Redeemed Christian church only started asking for tithes in recent years. Adeboye didn't want members to feel burdened. His words, "God said I'm blocking blessings of members by not telling them to pay tithe." As for your cloth experience, boo hoo. Sounds like someone who has bad experiences with one or two members of the opposite sex and concludes that ALL men, ALL women are... Are there criminals, lazy bums disguised as pastors. Yes, just last week alone I read of a Nigerian pastor who raped a pregnant woman, one who slept with a 12 year old, an animal who slit the throat of the young son of a member, another who duped a woman into donating her jeep to him and many more. But that can be said of the Nigerian police, lecturers... Even the freakin president. The first lady was carrying his child at 12 years of age. http://www.nairaland.com/2111800/mrs-aisha-buhari-9-10 http://www.nairaland.com/2111800/mrs-aisha-buhari-9-10 So... Be an atheist if you like, but be rational, and objective in your arguments.

humanrebar 9y ago

Ah. That's called "prosperity theology" or "prosperity gospel" in Western Christianity. Joel Osteen, Paula White, and others also subscribe to that in varying ways and to varying degrees. It's worth noting that Western Christianity largely opposes that sort of teaching. To the point of throwing the word "heresy" around, which might not sound like much to outsiders, but mainstream Western Christians prefer to be theologically circumspect to a fault. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology#Criticism

armenarmen 9y ago
Is there a direct lineage from Calvinism to the prosperity stuff?
- humanrebar 9y ago
  It goes farther back. People have long thought, "The gods favor people with wealth and power". And similarly that people have thought certain acts (prayers, rituals, spells, sacrifices) would get the gods to do what they wanted. There's a logic to it since that's pretty much how people work. Prosperity theology attempts to fit that approach into the words of the Bible. It generally relies on out of context quotes, fallacious logic, and errors of omission (John the Baptist ate bugs, Jesus couch surfed, the apostles did chores to earn their keep) to make its case. The New Testament is clearly on the record against showy religious displays, ritual-based theology, and status symbols.
  - narrator 9y ago
    Jesus said "the poor you will always have with you". Matthew 26:11. So according to Jesus poor people are just going to be around no matter what. The problem of economic inequality is not solveable.
    - photojosh 9y ago
      > Jesus said "the poor you will always have with you". Matthew 26:11. So according to Jesus poor people are just going to be around no matter what. The problem of economic inequality is not solveable. That's ripping a small quote completely out of its context, and neglecting to point out that because it's not completely solveable doesn't mean that we shouldn't try... and to try is an emphasis of much of the gospels. Here's the context: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+26%3A6-13%2CMark+14%3A3-9%2CJohn+12%3A1-8&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+26%3A6-... Reading the 3 parallel stories and noting that Judas was the instigator of the complaint according to John, suggests rather strongly that JC was pointing out the hypocrisy of a man whinging about perfume spilled when "He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it." Sounds just like these prosperity gospel megachurches, actually.

southphillyman 9y ago

In America this is called "prosperity preaching" and is very popular in the black community, which also happens to be the demographic most affected by poverty in the United States.

humanrebar 9y ago
Do you have any numbers on that? I don't sense a particular racial component to prosperity preaching in America. I have heard that it's particularly popular in developing countries, though, for what it's worth. That's not to say there aren't many, many prosperity gospel megachurches in the U.S., but they're not especially prominent compared to evangelical, catholic, or mainstream protestant ones.
- burkaman 9y ago
  I hadn't heard that either, but here's one survey: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/dxmhuwj6r1/tabs_OPI_Televangelists_20150826.pdf https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/docume...
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    Thanks for digging that up! It seems like there's a significant racial trend in that survey. Though it's still a small minority of black respondents that give answers in line with prosperity gospel. Though that may itself may be misleading since prosperity preachers will say things like "wealth is not a sign of God's favor" while teaching tricks (prayers, phrases, "seed offerings") for getting God to favor you with money, good relationships, and health.
- coliveira 9y ago
  Prosperity gospel is very popular in Brazil, in fact many politicians are now paying lip service for churches of this kind. Some of the largest new churches in Brazil are prosperity gospel churches, like the IURD of Edir Macedo, the richest Brazilian pastor according to Forbes, and owner of a bank and the 2nd largest (secular) TV network.