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> In America this would be impossible though. People would cry about state's rights, sign of the beast, privacy, etc. I don't understand this logic, so perhaps

> In America this would be impossible though. People would cry about state's rights, sign of the beast, privacy, etc. I don't understand this logic, so perhaps someone can help me out. Nearly all US citizens has a SSN or tax ID number that is tied to them at the federal level. The first is a pseudo-random (I use that term loosely) group of digits that is basically required for you to get anything accomplished in the US. There are no safeguards built in to the SSN, yet it is the most ubiquitous form of unique identification used in the US with no easy way to escape it. If yours gets compromised, you're screwed, and no one is willing to help you. A driver's license is a step down from that. Most Americans will have a state drivers license or state issued ID. No, it's not federal, but you're still entered into a government database where the information can be shared nationally if needed. On the other hand, a bonafide identification system with real safeguards to protect your identity would alleviate so many headaches, and it would be no more invasive than an SSN. What is the actual drawback to a national ID?

jinfiesto 9y ago
Do you live in the US? There's a deeply ingrained distrust of the government basically everywhere. You're right that it's beyond rational. I've had conversations here where people would rather the government do literally nothing about a problem than attempt solutions that could not possibly be worse than the status quo because of how deep government distrust runs.
- noxToken 9y ago
  I do. That's why it baffles me. It's so very irrational to me. I don't trust the government to get a lot of things right, but a simple ID system (even when poorly implemented) can't be any worse than SSN as ID. Lots of significant things use an SSN as a key - medical records, tax information, credit history, financial accounts. An SSN is one of the identifying things that the government definitely has access to. They could easily strong-arm their way around different agencies/companies with an SSN, so protection from government (in my eyes) is a non-argument. A nationalized ID is supposed to protect us from unscrupulous 3rd parties. If you get someone's name and SSN, you can do a quick public records look up for an address. Confirm it with one company (say a cable co.) and you have unfettered access to that person's life. I don't think the government could actually do worse than SSN as ID. It's a pseudo-random number with the person's place of birth and time of birth as "seeds". I already assume that Uncle Sam has (or at least access to) troves of data on me. So can they do me a favor and at least give me a half-assed ID system?
- djsumdog 9y ago
  I agree a national ID number would be helpful, but I also don't think the distrust of the government is irrational. The United States is the largest initiator of war and conflict in the world. It is the largest state sponsor of terrorism. It has more air craft carriers than the next five nations combined. It has 1% of its population in prison, more than any other high income country in the world. In 2008, congress/the senate bailed out a terrible corrupt banking industry, allowing CEOs to get away with millions, without consequence, while Americans all over the country lost their homes due to outright fraud. Distrust of the US government is by no means irrational.

jinfiesto 9y ago

Do you live in the US? There's a deeply ingrained distrust of the government basically everywhere. You're right that it's beyond rational. I've had conversations here where people would rather the government do literally nothing about a problem than attempt solutions that could not possibly be worse than the status quo because of how deep government distrust runs.

noxToken 9y ago
I do. That's why it baffles me. It's so very irrational to me. I don't trust the government to get a lot of things right, but a simple ID system (even when poorly implemented) can't be any worse than SSN as ID. Lots of significant things use an SSN as a key - medical records, tax information, credit history, financial accounts. An SSN is one of the identifying things that the government definitely has access to. They could easily strong-arm their way around different agencies/companies with an SSN, so protection from government (in my eyes) is a non-argument. A nationalized ID is supposed to protect us from unscrupulous 3rd parties. If you get someone's name and SSN, you can do a quick public records look up for an address. Confirm it with one company (say a cable co.) and you have unfettered access to that person's life. I don't think the government could actually do worse than SSN as ID. It's a pseudo-random number with the person's place of birth and time of birth as "seeds". I already assume that Uncle Sam has (or at least access to) troves of data on me. So can they do me a favor and at least give me a half-assed ID system?
djsumdog 9y ago
I agree a national ID number would be helpful, but I also don't think the distrust of the government is irrational. The United States is the largest initiator of war and conflict in the world. It is the largest state sponsor of terrorism. It has more air craft carriers than the next five nations combined. It has 1% of its population in prison, more than any other high income country in the world. In 2008, congress/the senate bailed out a terrible corrupt banking industry, allowing CEOs to get away with millions, without consequence, while Americans all over the country lost their homes due to outright fraud. Distrust of the US government is by no means irrational.