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>we have really hard time finding good engineers even with very good compensation Everyone thinks they are offering good compensation, regardless of whether it

>we have really hard time finding good engineers even with very good compensation Everyone thinks they are offering good compensation, regardless of whether it actually is. Somehow, I doubt you'd have the issue if you offered 100k.

Loic 9y ago
For the particular case I had in mind it was around 170k€, but in the Rhein/Ruhr Region, you can easily get 100k compensation for good chemical engineers with experience with very good work conditions.
- literallycancer 9y ago
  Interesting that there's such a difference between fields, thanks for the data point. Numbers like 170k aren't seen too often in software engineering in Germany as far as I'm aware.
  - Loic 9y ago
    Also in chemical engineering. This is usually for people having around 20 to 50 engineers reporting to them within a big company like Bayer, BASF, Covestro, Linde, etc. or for project managers coordinating large projects (10's to 100's of millions).
_Codemonkeyism 9y ago
This argument is simply flawed. If you offer 100k (or 1M or whatever) you just move one engineer from another company to yours. So the other company now has a hard time finding a good engineer. If you increase your salary scale you will get an engineer who is moved away soon by another company which pays more money. In an optimal market, with p% missing engineers you will have p% of your positions open. You can't plug holes with this strategy. The holes move around while salaries are increasing. I've worked for a company that payed at the top 10% of salaries and we still couldn't find enough engineers.
- parasight 9y ago
  Offering 100k (or more) would also attract more people from abroad. We (I'm German too) have to compete with other regions in the world where the pay is much higher. Higher does not mean better of course (cost of living), but people seem to prefer higher numbers on the paycheck.
  - _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
    We've hired extensively from Poland, but the argument holds: This is creating holes in Polish companies that can't find enough good engineers (as some of my Polish clients tell me).
    - parasight 9y ago
      Of course Polish companies have to increase the salaries too. Seems a lot of developers in Poland are considerable underpaid ... or they really like to work in Berlin :)
      - _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
        Which will create holes in Ukraine and the Baltic states.
- Symmetry 9y ago
  I have a number of scientist/mechanical engineer friends who have retrained into software because of how much better the job opportunities are. So it's not just a zero sum game.
  - parasight 9y ago
    Apropos training: Good salaries also attract young people to study computer science, software engineering or a related subject. (I personally think money should not be the sole motivation but it is reasonable to consider the ROI for studying a challenging subject.)

Loic 9y ago

For the particular case I had in mind it was around 170k€, but in the Rhein/Ruhr Region, you can easily get 100k compensation for good chemical engineers with experience with very good work conditions.

literallycancer 9y ago
Interesting that there's such a difference between fields, thanks for the data point. Numbers like 170k aren't seen too often in software engineering in Germany as far as I'm aware.
- Loic 9y ago
  Also in chemical engineering. This is usually for people having around 20 to 50 engineers reporting to them within a big company like Bayer, BASF, Covestro, Linde, etc. or for project managers coordinating large projects (10's to 100's of millions).

_Codemonkeyism 9y ago

This argument is simply flawed. If you offer 100k (or 1M or whatever) you just move one engineer from another company to yours. So the other company now has a hard time finding a good engineer. If you increase your salary scale you will get an engineer who is moved away soon by another company which pays more money. In an optimal market, with p% missing engineers you will have p% of your positions open. You can't plug holes with this strategy. The holes move around while salaries are increasing. I've worked for a company that payed at the top 10% of salaries and we still couldn't find enough engineers.

parasight 9y ago
Offering 100k (or more) would also attract more people from abroad. We (I'm German too) have to compete with other regions in the world where the pay is much higher. Higher does not mean better of course (cost of living), but people seem to prefer higher numbers on the paycheck.
- _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
  We've hired extensively from Poland, but the argument holds: This is creating holes in Polish companies that can't find enough good engineers (as some of my Polish clients tell me).
  - parasight 9y ago
    Of course Polish companies have to increase the salaries too. Seems a lot of developers in Poland are considerable underpaid ... or they really like to work in Berlin :)
    - _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
      Which will create holes in Ukraine and the Baltic states.
Symmetry 9y ago
I have a number of scientist/mechanical engineer friends who have retrained into software because of how much better the job opportunities are. So it's not just a zero sum game.
- parasight 9y ago
  Apropos training: Good salaries also attract young people to study computer science, software engineering or a related subject. (I personally think money should not be the sole motivation but it is reasonable to consider the ROI for studying a challenging subject.)