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I've always been completely blown away that there were 'uncontacted' tribes on Earth at the same time that we had a rover zipping around Mars. Gibson said it.

I've always been completely blown away that there were 'uncontacted' tribes on Earth at the same time that we had a rover zipping around Mars. Gibson said it. The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed.

deleted 9y ago
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sharkweek 9y ago
One of my favorite poems, by the late great Gil Scott-Heron, "Whitey on the moon" A rat done bit my sister Nell, with whitey on the moon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtBy_ppG4hY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtBy_ppG4hY I think it's obviously short-sighted to not budget for advancement, but it's important to remember this disparity exists.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
carapace 9y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sentinel_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sentinel_Island > It is home to the Sentinelese who, often violently, reject any contact with the outside world, and are among the last people worldwide to remain virtually untouched by modern civilization. As such, only limited information about the island is known. They are the control group. (And they live on Sentinel island! Get it?)
kamaal 9y ago
It is also a little scary. Human civilization and progress associated with it is a function of continuity and inertia. And that requires all the right inputs . Else it is perfectly possible to keep going in infinite loops between the past and the current. I remember reading somewhere the human race would be way more advanced had the hellenistic period continued. War, politics, economics, social conditions, religions they have to be all perfect.
- simonh 9y ago
  >I remember reading somewhere the human race would be way more advanced had the hellenistic period continued. I find those claims unconvincing. You can't just look at all the ups and downs in human social and technological development, pick and arbitrary upswing way back in the past, then project a continuous upward slope from that and pretend it was a realistic possibility. Individual technological achievements that long ago were a fine thing, but as you say yourself a lot of different factors and technologies and situational chances have to come together to reach the industrial age. Maybe a few extra nudges in the right direction here and there in history might have helped things along a bit, but realistically it was still going to take a very long time for all the different pieces to come together.
  - kamaal 9y ago
    It wasn't an arbitrary upswing. Hellenistic period lasted a good 300 years, and there was a decent prelude to it. Note the civilizations that came after it, although great in their own right. Including the Roman civilization had its own goals(Territorial expansion, cities, entertainment, Urban living etc etc). Now to give you another example as to how things could reverse and take forever to recover. Take a look at USSR and its space program. They were once in race to putting man on the moon and sending probes to Venus. Today? Not really that ahead of the pack. NASA on the other hand, has had relatively a lot more success. But a lot could change if there is some unanticipated political or economic crisis that could set back US as a country. Of course a new country will likely replace it, but the end and start points won't be exactly the same. The point being you need continuity and need to keep the inertia going to achieve stellar growth.
    - gjjrfcbugxbhf 9y ago
      Doesn't NASA use Russian rockets to actually get to space?
fpoling 9y ago
Consider if a really big disaster happens or total nuclear war etc., who have better chance to survive it, our modern civilization or some remote tribe in Amazon? And from that point of view a rover on Mars is not that impressive. If it will be a human colony there that can survive without Earth, then we are talking. But it requires a lot more advances and political will.
- blubb-fish 9y ago
  at the end of the day life is not about being impressive. life is about living. and I have not doubt those tribes are happier than 90% of the people belonging to advanced civilizations.
  - jackvalentine 9y ago
    While I agree it's a possibility, let's be careful not to fall in to the noble/happy savage trap.
    - blubb-fish 9y ago
      the noble/happy trap is closer to reality than the primitive/pitiable trap.
      - Retric 9y ago
        Based on what objective measurement? Happiness does not change much as long you can meet the basic needs for food / water / safety. So, the general assumption that people are about as happy works across a huge range of lifestyles. On the other hand primitive lifestyles have significantly shorter lifespans which is objectively an issue.
        blubb-fish 9y ago
        based f.x. on suicide statistics and common sense. measure your own well-being by spending a week programming vs spending a week in a hut in a forest.

deleted 9y ago

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sharkweek 9y ago

One of my favorite poems, by the late great Gil Scott-Heron, "Whitey on the moon" A rat done bit my sister Nell, with whitey on the moon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtBy_ppG4hY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtBy_ppG4hY I think it's obviously short-sighted to not budget for advancement, but it's important to remember this disparity exists.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

carapace 9y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sentinel_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sentinel_Island > It is home to the Sentinelese who, often violently, reject any contact with the outside world, and are among the last people worldwide to remain virtually untouched by modern civilization. As such, only limited information about the island is known. They are the control group. (And they live on Sentinel island! Get it?)

kamaal 9y ago

It is also a little scary. Human civilization and progress associated with it is a function of continuity and inertia. And that requires all the right inputs . Else it is perfectly possible to keep going in infinite loops between the past and the current. I remember reading somewhere the human race would be way more advanced had the hellenistic period continued. War, politics, economics, social conditions, religions they have to be all perfect.

simonh 9y ago
>I remember reading somewhere the human race would be way more advanced had the hellenistic period continued. I find those claims unconvincing. You can't just look at all the ups and downs in human social and technological development, pick and arbitrary upswing way back in the past, then project a continuous upward slope from that and pretend it was a realistic possibility. Individual technological achievements that long ago were a fine thing, but as you say yourself a lot of different factors and technologies and situational chances have to come together to reach the industrial age. Maybe a few extra nudges in the right direction here and there in history might have helped things along a bit, but realistically it was still going to take a very long time for all the different pieces to come together.
- kamaal 9y ago
  It wasn't an arbitrary upswing. Hellenistic period lasted a good 300 years, and there was a decent prelude to it. Note the civilizations that came after it, although great in their own right. Including the Roman civilization had its own goals(Territorial expansion, cities, entertainment, Urban living etc etc). Now to give you another example as to how things could reverse and take forever to recover. Take a look at USSR and its space program. They were once in race to putting man on the moon and sending probes to Venus. Today? Not really that ahead of the pack. NASA on the other hand, has had relatively a lot more success. But a lot could change if there is some unanticipated political or economic crisis that could set back US as a country. Of course a new country will likely replace it, but the end and start points won't be exactly the same. The point being you need continuity and need to keep the inertia going to achieve stellar growth.
  - gjjrfcbugxbhf 9y ago
    Doesn't NASA use Russian rockets to actually get to space?

fpoling 9y ago

Consider if a really big disaster happens or total nuclear war etc., who have better chance to survive it, our modern civilization or some remote tribe in Amazon? And from that point of view a rover on Mars is not that impressive. If it will be a human colony there that can survive without Earth, then we are talking. But it requires a lot more advances and political will.

blubb-fish 9y ago
at the end of the day life is not about being impressive. life is about living. and I have not doubt those tribes are happier than 90% of the people belonging to advanced civilizations.
- jackvalentine 9y ago
  While I agree it's a possibility, let's be careful not to fall in to the noble/happy savage trap.
  - blubb-fish 9y ago
    the noble/happy trap is closer to reality than the primitive/pitiable trap.
    - Retric 9y ago
      Based on what objective measurement? Happiness does not change much as long you can meet the basic needs for food / water / safety. So, the general assumption that people are about as happy works across a huge range of lifestyles. On the other hand primitive lifestyles have significantly shorter lifespans which is objectively an issue.
      - blubb-fish 9y ago
        based f.x. on suicide statistics and common sense. measure your own well-being by spending a week programming vs spending a week in a hut in a forest.