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'Junkware' comes standard on Verizon, T-Mobile smart phones
- kylelibra 16y agoThis is worse junkware than Apple's compass or stocks apps. Way worse. Hopefully this doesn't begin to happen more often.
- orangecat 16y agoI have no doubt that it will. When has marketing ever gotten less intrusive? This is another example of why Google really needs to continue making their own phones with stock Android, no crapware, and no root/ROM restrictions.
- sprout 16y agoI'm definitely beginning to think the Droid will be my last Motorola phone. Even the fact that you can't uninstall Amazon and the core Google apps is a little grating.
- ergo98 16y agoI paid $550 for my Nexus One, on which is an Amazon MP3 app that I have no ability to remove. It inexplicably starts up in the background quite frequently as well, for no particular reason. One day I finally gave in and tried to buy some music, to discover that the app is completely useless to me given that I'm in Canada and Amazon doesn't provide even free MP3s here. Very, very shitty of Google. They likely got some chump-change amount from Amazon for doing this (the price of the phone certainly doesn't seem to be subsidized by this junk), but it threatens user trust.
- jsdalton 16y agoThe compass and stocks apps aren't "junkware" in the sense the term is being used in the article (and the HN discussion here).
- camtarn 16y agoOrange UK does this as well. I bought my HTC Desire from Orange, with no intention of doing anything to it, but I ended up having to reflash it with a debranded ROM because the bundled software (much of which was demoware) could not be removed and was cluttering up my phone. Now I'm stuck eyeing every software update warily in case it screws up some critical piece of phone functionality - like the last system update, which caused wifi to stop working and required a full reflash and an £8 network unlock code to fix. Thanks Orange... I honestly don't mind too much if some extra software is installed when I get a phone - as long as I can remove it!
- jrockway 16y agoApparently the Droid X comes with extra hardware that bricks the phone if you try to root it: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2366536,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2366536,00.asp http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/droid-x-discussion/3330-how-droid-x-locked-down-let-me-tell-you-what-i-know.html http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/droid-x-discussion/3330-h... I wish people wouldn't do business with such consumer-unfriendly organizations. Or rather, I wish this was illegal.
- ergo98 16y agoAll recent OMAP processors have exactly the same hardware, including prior phones that don't brick when you root it.
- cookiecaper 16y agoThere is currently some controversy over this. See http://www.droid-life.com/2010/07/15/enough-with-the-efuse-talk-already/ http://www.droid-life.com/2010/07/15/enough-with-the-efuse-t... . I think the thing is that the hardware is _not_ meant to brick the phone, but there's still a dubious bootloader that kills itself when it sees a custom ROM. The good side to that is that if you can figure out how to fix the bootloader, things should work OK. I don't know, that's just what I get from that article, it's kind of hard to follow the whole thing here.
- vetinari 16y agoI don't know what specific chip is used on Droid, but I remember that on Qualcomm chipsets you cannot change primary program loader at all (it is in the chip ROM) and after the fuse is blown in handset factory, the primary program loader checks, whether the secondary program loader is signed and refuses to load it, when the check fails. So it really depends on SPL, what it allows to load and run. If it is strict in what it does, case is closed, buy something else.
- jrockway 16y agoAnd this is exactly why the GPL3 is necessary. Brick my device for modifying my GPL3 firmware? See you in court.
- stanleydrew 16y agoSprint did a lot of this too. On the EVO I got at Google I/O I remember a Sprint NexTel Cup Nascar App that was completely uninstallable. I've since gotten rid of the phone. I much prefer my N1 with stock Android.
- mxavier 16y agoI just got an EVO about a week ago. I don't understand why a company would be so confident that every single user wants a nascar app that they would remove the option to uninstall. Put the app in the marketplace, make it free, let people uninstall it and then put it back on their phone if they decide they're interested in it again. How is it that people so opinionated are permitted to select the software for a phone that thousands of people will use?
- wmf 16y agoWhat users want has nothing to do with it. Verizon is probably getting paid X cents for every copy of that app, and since they've already accounted for the revenue GAAP won't allow them to remove it.
- woodall 16y agoSprint and Nascar are partners- see NASCAR Sprint Cup[1]. Because of this, it is in their best interest that people watch/become aware of NASCAR. It's like product placement, but on your phone. [1] http://www2.sprint.com/mr/cda_pkDetail.do?id=1160&ECID=vanity:sprintcup http://www2.sprint.com/mr/cda_pkDetail.do?id=1160&ECID=v...
- nooneelse 16y agoWe know the reasoning, but we think it is poor reasoning. If a user doesn't want the app and can't get rid of it, then now they have something against the Nascar brand. That isn't good advertising.
- ilamont 16y agoI heard about a similar situation for AT&T's first Android phone, the BackFlip, which besides coming with uninstallable crapware, forced Yahoo search as the default on all applications that used it. I wonder if Google had to give the carriers this flexibility in order to get them to use the OS?
- illumin8 16y agoThey did. Google basically says: "Use our OS for free and you don't have to pay for a Windows license; plus it's open source so you can modify it in any way you want." So we end up with a carrier free for all. Marketroids gone wild, infesting your phone with a million "punch the monkey" and Banzai Buddy adware, spyware, and pop-ups. This is the future of Android. I have a feeling it will become easier for hackers to root their phones and install a clean OS, so it will be just like buying a cheap Dell computer - wipe it clean, put Ubuntu on it, and you're golden.
- cmelbye 16y agoThis story and the Droid X self-destruct debacle are both reaffirming my decision to buy an iPhone 4. Apple would sooner run Windows Mobile 7 on their phones than they would install third party demos, etc on the phone.
- isleyaardvark 16y agoLots of people talk about how the iPhone is closed and you can't control what's on it, but look how "open" platforms have worked out in practice.
- pilif 16y agothey AREN'T open. That's the problem. The underlying OS might be mostly open. But the hardware you buy is as closed as it gets. You as the paying customer are at the mercy of your carriers ideas about how they can increase their revenue. That's what we get from that crazy model of handsets being subsidized by carriers. If people didn't expect a (mostly) free phone every year or two, with some likelihood, this would stop as people would want to demand to get what they pay for.
- orangecat 16y agoThat's what we get from that crazy model of handsets being subsidized by carriers. Exactly, and unfortunately that's what "we" want. Google tried to break that dysfunctional model with the Nexus One, but most people can't get past the initial $529 price. I wish they at least tried to explain how you can end up saving a lot by using T-Mobile's contract-free plans.
- cheald 16y ago> but most people can't get past the initial $529 price. Sadly, this is very true. I bought an unlocked Nexus One, and people ooh and ahh over it, but when they ask me how much I paid for it, they blanch. At that point, they stop listening, even though I go on to explain that it ends up costing me less over time than if I'd bought a cheaper-up-front subsidized phone. It's really a reflection of our credit card culture. Many people consider $600 over 12 months (Only $50/month!) to be cheaper than $500 all at once (OMG, my bank account!).
- dminor 16y agoMy G1 came with Amazon's MP3 store, so sadly this isn't even a new phenomenon for smart phones.
- cookiecaper 16y agoI wiped my G1 without really even using the default install. Was totally rad.
- w1ntermute 16y agoThe way I see it, the people who are actually bothered by this kind of thing will know how to remove it from their devices. On a related note, the Droid Incredible has been rooted: http://www.droid-life.com/2010/07/15/finally-the-droid-life-incredible-has-been-rooted/ http://www.droid-life.com/2010/07/15/finally-the-droid-life-... Some people are saying that the eFuse technology in the Droid X will prevent it from being rooted as well, but that may not necessarily be the case: http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/15/reality-check-modding-the-droid-x-may-not-lead-to-a-bricked-phone/ http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/15/reality-check-modd...
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- akshat 16y agoMicrosoft seems to have learnt its lesson well here for WP7. They apparently will not allow the carriers to place more than a couple of apps which will be removable by the user.
- ilamont 16y agoThey may have won that battle, but on other fronts things aren't looking so hot: http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7-dont-bother-disaster-211?page=0,0 http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7-dont-bot...
- bosch 16y agoThat was a hack piece of journalism based on no facts and not even a finished product. As a reader I felt it was very harsh and didn't provide any examples. If he writes the same thing when Windows 7 is released and provides examples then I might listen to him. But releasing an article like that right now just lowers his street cred and makes him sound like he's jumping on the anti-MS bandwagon with everyone else...
- pilif 16y agoOn the PCs, you could at least uninstall the "value added" software bundles. Or if that didn't go well (we all know how these uninstallers work), you could at least buy another copy of Windows and install that after wiping the installation clean. On the smartphones, you have to go the dubious route of using security flaws in the firmware to install a custom ROM, on the way invalidating your warranty. That's why I was so happy about the Nexus One as that came (mostlly cough Amazon MP3 cough) "pristine" out of the box and you can even officially install a custom ROM image (still invalidating the warranty though, but at least the procedure is officially sanctioned and thus probably continues to work even as the firmware gets updated). Too bad Google won't do a Nexus two.
- vetinari 16y agoGoogle won't do phone retailing. (Honestly? No wonder, they are exceptionaly bad at it). That does not mean that there will be no developer phone. N1 was actually third developer phone (after ADP1 and ADP2). There surely will be fourth.
- pilif 16y agoI really hope so. I don't see myself ever getting one of these void-your-warranty-to-make-them-bearable phones.
- evilduck 16y agoIt doesn't always take security flaws to flash a phone. I have a Samsung Moment, and you can put any ROM you want on it via hijacking their official updater (the only security flaw being that they don't checksum what they allow you to upload to the firmware).
- illumin8 16y agoThis, I think, will be the major downfall of Android. Similar to the destruction of the Windows brand by letting OEMs install trialware, shovelware, etc, the carriers will do anything to make an extra buck. This is why Apple put their foot down and refused to let the carrier touch the software on the phone. And rightly so... In the carrier world we'd all have trial versions of Norton Antivirus that ask for your credit card number when you're trying to make a call... Watch, it will happen with Android. The carriers have just figured out how to write Android apps, and Google is doing nothing to force them to keep their phones clean.
- Tichy 16y agoThe original Nexus One from Google is still the only Android device I would buy. I worry what comes next, since Google doesn't seem to plan doing that kind of thing anymore :-(
- chc 16y agoLikewise. I was considering getting an Android phone when my contract with AT&T was up, but nobody seems interested in building a good one. No wonder Apple was able to walk in and slap these guys around so effortlessly.
- jckarter 16y agoGoogle should do what the Mozilla project does with Firefox and use their Android trademark to enforce user-experience standards before this becomes an epidemic. If the carriers take their Android code and use it to punch their customers in the face like this, don't let them call it Android anymore.
- wmf 16y agoThat likely would result in near-zero market share for Android.
- roc 16y agoWhy? No-one's interested in the Android mark as-is. That's the real criticism of that suggestion. If Google threatened to take away their rights to use the Android name or logo they wouldn't bat an eye. The manufacturers and carriers are after the modern OS and saving the development time involved in "catching up" from their horrible old systems. They prefer that their customers don't build up brand loyalty to something they don't control. Why do you think Verizon is selling Droid phones?
- wmf 16y agoI guess I wasn't clear. If Google says "ship vanilla Android or nothing" (basically the same policy as Apple), carriers will choose some other OS that lets them load crapware. If Google says "you can choose to ship vanilla Android™ or DroidWeasel", I agree with you that the carriers will simply rebrand it.
- blasdel 16y agoThe 'Android' trademark is fairly worthless to the carriers and manufacturers, and they mostly avoid it anyway. They could fork the OS anyway, since it's open source! What Google could do is be a lot more aggressive with the certification process for their 'Google Experience' apps -- the carriers would at least pay attention if Google threatened to not allow them to distribute their closed-source apps: Marketplace, Maps, Gmail, etc.
- bosch 16y agoI, for one, appreciate the effort that the carriers have spent to pre-install apps for me!
- bosch 16y agoJoke anyone? WTF.
- mkramlich 16y agowell there goes the whole freedom argument. ouch.