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My definition is essentially "Can humans still operate the system without sophisticated microprocessors?" and the answer for all the things I listed is no. Don

My definition is essentially "Can humans still operate the system without sophisticated microprocessors?" and the answer for all the things I listed is no. Don't be confused: Society is as much run by the machines as society runs the machines. People do not recognize this, for precisely the same reason you're disputing me: It seems like humans are fully in control. We lack all but the grossest influence over most of the fully automated systems - we can pull the plug, but we can never go back to non-automated from where we are today. Complex systems are chaotic and rapidly exceed the capabilities of humans to understand and control.

goatlover 9y ago
If humans disappeared tomorrow, like with the book Aftermath: Population Zero or the Life After People show, then all our machines and civilization stop working and begin to fall apart soon after (Las Vegas might stay powered for 2 years before the Hoover Dam pipes clogged up and satellites longer). If something changed the physics of our planet so that all modern technology stopped working, such as in the Dies the Fire book, then although most humans would starve, the survivors would start over with a medieval society (plus being able to use the scraps from modern world). That's the fundamental difference. A world run by machines could exist after us and continue or build it's own civilization, which presumably Skynet would be able to do if it had won. The Matrix is more mixed, because the machines need humans to satisfy a lot of their power needs.