6 ms·

There's nothing wrong with buying $6 bread or having many cars or whatever. You don't need to flagellate yourself just because you have money. It's just life.

There's nothing wrong with buying $6 bread or having many cars or whatever. You don't need to flagellate yourself just because you have money. It's just life. Even if we tear everything down and rebuilt from first principles, some would have more and others less. By six orders of magnitude. It's just inescapable. Even communist countries were like that. The rich person hate is pretty dopey. There's a subreddit /r/LateStageCapitalism that actively breeds hate against rich people the same way /r/coontown bred hate against blacks. It's just somehow more socially acceptable to post online about killing rich people than minorities. There was literally a comment that was talking over the merits of stabbing Musk just for being a wealthy capitalist. I'm not sure where I'm going with this comment other than to say it's a very strange time we live in. The whole "us vs them" mentality isn't healthy. There's no reason they should feel bad about buying $6 bread just because they can.

pharrington 9y ago
It seems that no small part of most people's social nature is aversion to perceived unfairness, from within or without.
nickthemagicman 9y ago
/r/LateStageCapitalism is not about breeding hate against the rich? I just went there and not a single post on any page I went to had a hateful post towards the rich. Maybe there's one or two posts occasionally but there's 180,000 subscribers.... It's actually a really good subreddit about legit problems we're facing in ....Late Stage Capitalism.
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  https://i.imgur.com/OdUWQrE.jpg https://i.imgur.com/OdUWQrE.jpg https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/6yly20/gotta_deport_em/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/6yly20... Godda deport 'em! Kick those rich people out! They're destroying America. Get rid of those scumbags before they destroy you! Come on now. That's exactly what they're doing. https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/6yly20/gotta_deport_em/dmojuux/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/6yly20... "You spelled "confiscate their property, send them to gulag, and allow them to work their way back into society" wrong. Deporting the Bourgeoisie only inflicts them on another country."
  - andrepd 9y ago
    You're seriously this upset about (i) use of irony and (ii) commenters on an online forum?
    - sillysaurus3 9y ago
      Here's what I almost tacked onto the end of my original comment: "In before someone defends them by saying it's sarcasm. Oh? So the people in /r/coontown who were being sarcastic about killing blacks is reprehensible, but this is somehow ok?" I didn't want to construct a strawman argument, but there you go. Dismissing online forums seems silly. Both HN and reddit have had a huge impact.
      - andrepd 9y ago
        The title "deport them" is satirising the classical conservative discourse of blaming the immigrants and the minorities, suggesting that those really to blame by the average Joe's woes are the rich 0.1%, thereby making use of irony to subvert the term "minorities" to mean those 0.1% of the population. Clearer?
        sillysaurus3 9y ago
        It's ironic you're explaining irony to me when I already got the joke. It's in the context of "screw these rich people." That joke wouldn't be okay if it was "screw these black people." So are we applying equal standards? Why not? Personally, I think all jokes should be fine. The more scathing criticism and wit, the better. But we live in a climate where that's not really realistic. (Well, it is, but the joke had better be pretty funny to get away with it. This one was a lowball.) So again: Why is it ok to aim this hatred towards rich people, but not minorities?
        andrepd 9y ago
        Minorities don't hoard wealth to the detriment of others. Minorities don't encourage and profit from a reckless, agressive, all-consuming consumer capitalist economy that's wrecking the planet. Minorities don't manipulate your mind with endless propaganda and advertising. Minorities don't lobby government to write laws that favour them. Minorities don't dodge taxes. In short, I have no valid reason to be angry at minorities, I have plenty to be mad at the privileged few in the current system. Honestly? If I have to spell this out to you I don't think this conversation is ever going anywhere.
yorwba 9y ago
I think there's something wrong with having many cars that you don't actually use. The externalities of manufacturing are quite out of proportion with the enjoyment of the car collector. It's not wrong per se to have more money than others, but it does morally obligate you to spend it on things that are net positive for society.
- nnfy 9y ago
  We are under no moral obligation to spend our money in any way. Where does this sense of entitlement come from? Do you believe that your morals are truely absolute?
  - yorwba 9y ago
    I subscribe to moral relativism, so any statements about morality I make are just my opinion, nothing more.
    - bmmayer1 9y ago
      You did make a moral statement and presented it as fact, so you are under some obligation to defend it, I think.
    - nnfy 9y ago
      Sure, that is the point of moral relativism, because morality is shaped by culture. For instance, capital punishment is variously moral/immoral in different parts of the world.
  - SubiculumCode 9y ago
    An[d] society is under no obligation to let your money continue to have power over them. See it can go both ways, and people have to give both ways.
    - nnfy 9y ago
      Our agreement is based on the fact that there will always be someone more interested in your wallet than your life. It is dangerous to suggest that after x dollars it is acceptable to take money from someone. Excluding taxes, which are a different subject.
andrepd 9y ago
There is wrong. Read the article. Most of the people interviewed are said to have inherited wealth, in the millions of dollars. More wealth fell into their lap than the maid will ever earn in several lifetimes. This is deeply unfair. The economic system that promotes this is deeply unfair. Wealthy people benefit from a system that perpetuates their wealth. They actively influence decision making to favour themselves. They can buy power, influence, to a point 99% of the earth's population can. Notwithstanding your opinions on socialism (dirty word I know), Marxist class theory is real: the "owners" and the "workers" are as clear-cut social classes as the peasantry and nobility of yore. Also, about that subreddit, I have never seen any post calling for "killing rich people" or any nonsense like that. It's just a place to post examples of capitalism gone awry. Perhaps it just touched a nerve?
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/6yly20/gotta_deport_em/dmojuux/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/6yly20... Boy I wish I could dig up that comment about killing Musk. It was under a thread titled "We won't take kindly to defending your tech bros here" or some nonsense. It was about how if you come in there to say anything good about Musk, expect to get banned. The subthread devolved into talking about stabbing capitalists.
  - SubiculumCode 9y ago
    It doesn't even matter whether someone posted that: You can always find a post on the internet from someone posting a threat against someone else.
    - sillysaurus3 9y ago
      Yes, but /r/coontown was banned for similar behavior. I think that ban was justified. People have been calling for The_Donald to be banned for a long time. /r/physicalremoval was just banned for inciting violence. It does matter whether people are saying this, and how frequently they're saying it.
chillwaves 9y ago
Do you really think being rich is the same as being born black? Inequality has a lot of messed up effects, such as rich individuals being able to destroy the planet's ability to sustain life in pursuit of profit, in a way the only through the magnification of capitalism is such short sightedness possible. A community would never vote to destroy itself, but in the pursuit of profit, it is nothing for the wealthy to pollute and destroy a land that is not their home. Secondly, the drive of technologly (drives all change and overthrown feudalism with capitalism) will make the exchange of labor for money pretty much obsolete for increasing portions of humanity. The question is, do we waste the human wealth generated by education and innovation because we can't find a way to make a few bucks in sweatshops anymore? This again, is where inequality is facing drawbacks. Don't be so comfortable, tomorrow is coming soon.
SubiculumCode 9y ago
Did my statement say there was something wrong with being rich? This is about people who feel embarrassed. I doubt they are feeling embarrassed because they feel that there is nothing wrong with their extravagance....and their solution to this embarrassment is to hide their extravagant spending, not by altering their spending or generosity. But I also empathize. I've done the same when I walk past the homeless, or past fieldworkers...and me a poor post-doc. Hating the rich...Well now there are multiple types of rich, aren't there. There are rich that were born to their money, treat investments of that money as "risks", look at the rabble and sneer because she/he is so obviously better, because look at all that risk that payed out...that type is easy to hate. But money makes money and I find the rentiers worthless. Then there are those that worked hard, and got lucky, and still remember what it is like to wonder how the hell you are going to fix the brakes on the car, how to lose weight while working two part-time jobs with hours that change weekly. In any case, hate of the rich is not driven by envy or driven by the fact that they are rich at all. The hate is driven by the excessive inequality, not just the exaggerated inequality in pay, but exaggerated inequality in opportunity, in legal representation both in the courtroom but also in the making of law. They are angry because the fix is in, and they know it in their bones.

pharrington 9y ago

It seems that no small part of most people's social nature is aversion to perceived unfairness, from within or without.

nickthemagicman 9y ago

/r/LateStageCapitalism is not about breeding hate against the rich? I just went there and not a single post on any page I went to had a hateful post towards the rich. Maybe there's one or two posts occasionally but there's 180,000 subscribers.... It's actually a really good subreddit about legit problems we're facing in ....Late Stage Capitalism.

sillysaurus3 9y ago
https://i.imgur.com/OdUWQrE.jpg https://i.imgur.com/OdUWQrE.jpg https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/6yly20/gotta_deport_em/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/6yly20... Godda deport 'em! Kick those rich people out! They're destroying America. Get rid of those scumbags before they destroy you! Come on now. That's exactly what they're doing. https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/6yly20/gotta_deport_em/dmojuux/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/6yly20... "You spelled "confiscate their property, send them to gulag, and allow them to work their way back into society" wrong. Deporting the Bourgeoisie only inflicts them on another country."
- andrepd 9y ago
  You're seriously this upset about (i) use of irony and (ii) commenters on an online forum?
  - sillysaurus3 9y ago
    Here's what I almost tacked onto the end of my original comment: "In before someone defends them by saying it's sarcasm. Oh? So the people in /r/coontown who were being sarcastic about killing blacks is reprehensible, but this is somehow ok?" I didn't want to construct a strawman argument, but there you go. Dismissing online forums seems silly. Both HN and reddit have had a huge impact.
    - andrepd 9y ago
      The title "deport them" is satirising the classical conservative discourse of blaming the immigrants and the minorities, suggesting that those really to blame by the average Joe's woes are the rich 0.1%, thereby making use of irony to subvert the term "minorities" to mean those 0.1% of the population. Clearer?
      - sillysaurus3 9y ago
        It's ironic you're explaining irony to me when I already got the joke. It's in the context of "screw these rich people." That joke wouldn't be okay if it was "screw these black people." So are we applying equal standards? Why not? Personally, I think all jokes should be fine. The more scathing criticism and wit, the better. But we live in a climate where that's not really realistic. (Well, it is, but the joke had better be pretty funny to get away with it. This one was a lowball.) So again: Why is it ok to aim this hatred towards rich people, but not minorities?
        andrepd 9y ago
        Minorities don't hoard wealth to the detriment of others. Minorities don't encourage and profit from a reckless, agressive, all-consuming consumer capitalist economy that's wrecking the planet. Minorities don't manipulate your mind with endless propaganda and advertising. Minorities don't lobby government to write laws that favour them. Minorities don't dodge taxes. In short, I have no valid reason to be angry at minorities, I have plenty to be mad at the privileged few in the current system. Honestly? If I have to spell this out to you I don't think this conversation is ever going anywhere.

yorwba 9y ago

I think there's something wrong with having many cars that you don't actually use. The externalities of manufacturing are quite out of proportion with the enjoyment of the car collector. It's not wrong per se to have more money than others, but it does morally obligate you to spend it on things that are net positive for society.

nnfy 9y ago
We are under no moral obligation to spend our money in any way. Where does this sense of entitlement come from? Do you believe that your morals are truely absolute?
- yorwba 9y ago
  I subscribe to moral relativism, so any statements about morality I make are just my opinion, nothing more.
  - bmmayer1 9y ago
    You did make a moral statement and presented it as fact, so you are under some obligation to defend it, I think.
  - nnfy 9y ago
    Sure, that is the point of moral relativism, because morality is shaped by culture. For instance, capital punishment is variously moral/immoral in different parts of the world.
- SubiculumCode 9y ago
  An[d] society is under no obligation to let your money continue to have power over them. See it can go both ways, and people have to give both ways.
  - nnfy 9y ago
    Our agreement is based on the fact that there will always be someone more interested in your wallet than your life. It is dangerous to suggest that after x dollars it is acceptable to take money from someone. Excluding taxes, which are a different subject.

andrepd 9y ago

There is wrong. Read the article. Most of the people interviewed are said to have inherited wealth, in the millions of dollars. More wealth fell into their lap than the maid will ever earn in several lifetimes. This is deeply unfair. The economic system that promotes this is deeply unfair. Wealthy people benefit from a system that perpetuates their wealth. They actively influence decision making to favour themselves. They can buy power, influence, to a point 99% of the earth's population can. Notwithstanding your opinions on socialism (dirty word I know), Marxist class theory is real: the "owners" and the "workers" are as clear-cut social classes as the peasantry and nobility of yore. Also, about that subreddit, I have never seen any post calling for "killing rich people" or any nonsense like that. It's just a place to post examples of capitalism gone awry. Perhaps it just touched a nerve?

sillysaurus3 9y ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/6yly20/gotta_deport_em/dmojuux/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/6yly20... Boy I wish I could dig up that comment about killing Musk. It was under a thread titled "We won't take kindly to defending your tech bros here" or some nonsense. It was about how if you come in there to say anything good about Musk, expect to get banned. The subthread devolved into talking about stabbing capitalists.
- SubiculumCode 9y ago
  It doesn't even matter whether someone posted that: You can always find a post on the internet from someone posting a threat against someone else.
  - sillysaurus3 9y ago
    Yes, but /r/coontown was banned for similar behavior. I think that ban was justified. People have been calling for The_Donald to be banned for a long time. /r/physicalremoval was just banned for inciting violence. It does matter whether people are saying this, and how frequently they're saying it.

chillwaves 9y ago

Do you really think being rich is the same as being born black? Inequality has a lot of messed up effects, such as rich individuals being able to destroy the planet's ability to sustain life in pursuit of profit, in a way the only through the magnification of capitalism is such short sightedness possible. A community would never vote to destroy itself, but in the pursuit of profit, it is nothing for the wealthy to pollute and destroy a land that is not their home. Secondly, the drive of technologly (drives all change and overthrown feudalism with capitalism) will make the exchange of labor for money pretty much obsolete for increasing portions of humanity. The question is, do we waste the human wealth generated by education and innovation because we can't find a way to make a few bucks in sweatshops anymore? This again, is where inequality is facing drawbacks. Don't be so comfortable, tomorrow is coming soon.

SubiculumCode 9y ago

Did my statement say there was something wrong with being rich? This is about people who feel embarrassed. I doubt they are feeling embarrassed because they feel that there is nothing wrong with their extravagance....and their solution to this embarrassment is to hide their extravagant spending, not by altering their spending or generosity. But I also empathize. I've done the same when I walk past the homeless, or past fieldworkers...and me a poor post-doc. Hating the rich...Well now there are multiple types of rich, aren't there. There are rich that were born to their money, treat investments of that money as "risks", look at the rabble and sneer because she/he is so obviously better, because look at all that risk that payed out...that type is easy to hate. But money makes money and I find the rentiers worthless. Then there are those that worked hard, and got lucky, and still remember what it is like to wonder how the hell you are going to fix the brakes on the car, how to lose weight while working two part-time jobs with hours that change weekly. In any case, hate of the rich is not driven by envy or driven by the fact that they are rich at all. The hate is driven by the excessive inequality, not just the exaggerated inequality in pay, but exaggerated inequality in opportunity, in legal representation both in the courtroom but also in the making of law. They are angry because the fix is in, and they know it in their bones.