6 ms·

This is one of the better patent grants out there. If a company intends to use patents as a weapon, then Reason is not for them. Of course, if FB sues you first

by jeswin 9y ago

This is one of the better patent grants out there. If a company intends to use patents as a weapon, then Reason is not for them. Of course, if FB sues you first and you counter sue, the grant does not terminate. Seems fair. I wish they go one step further and say, if you sue or threaten to sue anyone (not just FB) over patents, then the grant terminates automatically.

sillysaurus3 9y ago
I wish they go one step further and say, if you sue or threaten to sue anyone (not just FB) over patents, then the grant terminates automatically. It's better not to use software to force people to change their behavior. It's open source software. That means something. Or used to, at least. We've come from the ideals of the GPL down to defensive/active countermeasures of corporation vs corporation conflict.
- blackoil 9y ago
  GPL forces people to change behaviour, if they do not wish to open source their software, or use a different license.
  - sillysaurus3 9y ago
    In order to open the software to more people. The license here is a defensive move solely to limit damage. Which is fine, I get it. There's nothing wrong with it. I'm just lamenting that Software Matters Now. At this point it's less about having an open culture of sharing and more "We own this."
    - Sacho 9y ago
      The grant parent describes is very similar to GPL, with an end-goal of eliminating patents.
  - AsyncAwait 9y ago
    > GPL forces people to change behaviour, if they do not wish to open source their software GPL forces people to respect the wishes of whatever software they depend on, they're free to not use it.
andreyf 9y ago
By "use patents as a weapon" you mean "ever plan to enforce patents against Facebook"? That's quite a stretch. Still, folks more knowledgeable than me on this topic say it's not a big deal: https://medium.com/@dwalsh.sdlr/react-facebook-and-the-revokable-patent-license-why-its-a-paper-25c40c50b562 https://medium.com/@dwalsh.sdlr/react-facebook-and-the-revok...
- namelost 9y ago
  Many people around these parts reject software patents as immoral, because software is just applied mathematics and mathematics should not be patentable. So yes, any use of a software patent offensively is malicious.
  - setzer22 9y ago
    Software can ve very far from mathematics. Your argument applies to algorithms, but personally I don't think that React falls under the category of algorithms (it may use algorithms, though).
henvic 9y ago
I love this patent grant Facebook uses! If you are a criminal and want to use software patents to attack innocents, I couldn't care less if Facebook throws some lawyers to hunt you.
- yawaramin 9y ago
  The thing is, this patent grant wording seems to say that if you are using React, and Facebook infringes on your patents (software or otherwise), and you defend your patents by suing Facebook, you lose the right to use React. So I think it's good to be aware of that.
  - Lazare 9y ago
    > you defend your patents by suing Facebook, you lose the right to use React. No you don't. You lose the right to use any patents Facebook might (or much more likely, doesn't) have on React.
    - AsyncAwait 9y ago
      Which is effectively the same, since if you're now violating an additional patent by continuing to use React, you just gave Facebook additional munition to potentially use against you.
      - Lazare 9y ago
        > since if you're now violating an additional patent by continuing to use React What patent? Patents are a matter of public record; tell me what patent you think I'd be violating.
        AsyncAwait 9y ago
        Right now, none, but I was talking about the potential of the thing, Facebook might apply for a React-related patent in the future and if you have an entirely React-based project, that say your company depends on, it's going to be a problem.

by jeswin 9y ago

sillysaurus3 9y ago

I wish they go one step further and say, if you sue or threaten to sue anyone (not just FB) over patents, then the grant terminates automatically. It's better not to use software to force people to change their behavior. It's open source software. That means something. Or used to, at least. We've come from the ideals of the GPL down to defensive/active countermeasures of corporation vs corporation conflict.

blackoil 9y ago
GPL forces people to change behaviour, if they do not wish to open source their software, or use a different license.
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  In order to open the software to more people. The license here is a defensive move solely to limit damage. Which is fine, I get it. There's nothing wrong with it. I'm just lamenting that Software Matters Now. At this point it's less about having an open culture of sharing and more "We own this."
  - Sacho 9y ago
    The grant parent describes is very similar to GPL, with an end-goal of eliminating patents.
- AsyncAwait 9y ago
  > GPL forces people to change behaviour, if they do not wish to open source their software GPL forces people to respect the wishes of whatever software they depend on, they're free to not use it.

andreyf 9y ago

By "use patents as a weapon" you mean "ever plan to enforce patents against Facebook"? That's quite a stretch. Still, folks more knowledgeable than me on this topic say it's not a big deal: https://medium.com/@dwalsh.sdlr/react-facebook-and-the-revokable-patent-license-why-its-a-paper-25c40c50b562 https://medium.com/@dwalsh.sdlr/react-facebook-and-the-revok...

namelost 9y ago
Many people around these parts reject software patents as immoral, because software is just applied mathematics and mathematics should not be patentable. So yes, any use of a software patent offensively is malicious.
- setzer22 9y ago
  Software can ve very far from mathematics. Your argument applies to algorithms, but personally I don't think that React falls under the category of algorithms (it may use algorithms, though).

henvic 9y ago

I love this patent grant Facebook uses! If you are a criminal and want to use software patents to attack innocents, I couldn't care less if Facebook throws some lawyers to hunt you.

yawaramin 9y ago
The thing is, this patent grant wording seems to say that if you are using React, and Facebook infringes on your patents (software or otherwise), and you defend your patents by suing Facebook, you lose the right to use React. So I think it's good to be aware of that.
- Lazare 9y ago
  > you defend your patents by suing Facebook, you lose the right to use React. No you don't. You lose the right to use any patents Facebook might (or much more likely, doesn't) have on React.
  - AsyncAwait 9y ago
    Which is effectively the same, since if you're now violating an additional patent by continuing to use React, you just gave Facebook additional munition to potentially use against you.
    - Lazare 9y ago
      > since if you're now violating an additional patent by continuing to use React What patent? Patents are a matter of public record; tell me what patent you think I'd be violating.
      - AsyncAwait 9y ago
        Right now, none, but I was talking about the potential of the thing, Facebook might apply for a React-related patent in the future and if you have an entirely React-based project, that say your company depends on, it's going to be a problem.