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Identity Theft, Credit Reports, and You
- brndnmtthws 9y agoAnother good way to protect yourself is to save money, and avoid needing to rely on banks for a credit lifeline.
- argonaut 9y agoBut in many cases using credit will save you money. Two examples would be credit cards with their rewards (as long as you never pay interest) and house/car loans if you manage to get a low rate and invest what you don't pay up front.
- tertius 9y agoIf "invest what you don't pay" is the only benefit to buying a very quickly depreciating asset then you're not a very good investor. Buy a used car and invest the bulk of the cash (if you actually have any). Can't get great deals on used car loans compared to new. Fees/depreciation quickly kills the allure of a good rate. If your user credit cards for rewards you don't realize that it actually makes you spend more money than you're getting in "rewards".
- brndnmtthws 9y agoThis right here. These companies are milking people and they have no idea because they only want to believe what already confirms their biases.
- brndnmtthws 9y agoThe "save money by spending money!!" argument is nonsense. People have just been brainwashed into conspicuous consumption to prop up the economic metrics.
- eli 9y agoNo, the scam is that all other shoppers are subsidizing your reward points in the form of slightly higher prices. There are some apartments around here that let you pay rent by credit card. You'd be foolish not to take advantage of that and save at least 1% on your rent.
- thanksgiving 9y agoI think what go is saying is that credit card companies have trained us to spend more money by using credit cards. It is possible that you are in a small minority of people who has common sense™ but most of us (including me) tend to spend more or simply decide to spend or not bad on the small stimulus. Again, I'm not accusing you of irresponsibility. I'm just saying what I think is common. Edit: I agree. If you're making an expense anyway, it is obviously better to get the highest reward you can get. But we're talking local optimization now.
- tertius 9y agoI'd ask for a cash/direct debit discount instead. Cut out the middleman.
- lotsofpulp 9y agoAs an operator of multiple businesses, I much prefer customers who pay with cards than cash. There is a high cost to handling cash, making sure employees don't steal, counting it, getting change from bank, depositing it, etc. Therefore, it might not behoove the owner of the business to provide a cash discount.
- tertius 9y agoDirect debit (or cash). Rental is more often done with direct debit than credit cards.
- lotsofpulp 9y ago
- stephengillie 9y agoThis is a paradox I recently encountered - using credit cards can create another asset in the form of airline miles. A friend who is currently a college student (and just left a summer job as a postal carrier) used airline miles to pay for a weekend in a very nice hotel. At full rate, his few days would have cost more than a month of rent at my luxury apartment. He earned these miles through his ~20 airline-mile credit cards, and so now I'm researching how to game this "free to play" system.
- skinnymuch 9y agoYep. I put my brother in a bad spot. It doesn't really hurt him much right now but I messed up some business work using CCs under his name. With his permission of course. I can't pay them off right now, but I've managed to get my credit score close to 800. So I'm going to be getting a couple of credit cards and balance transfer my debts over to myself. All the decent or better CCs I've seen, offer pretty nice opening offers. I'll definitely be taking advantage of the "spend $3K in 2 months and get $500" sort of deals and pay off those balances. It'll essentially be free money. Like churning you said, Reddits churning subreddit provides a lot of info. Not sure if there are other good communities, but that seems good.
- tertius 9y agoSpend $3k and get $500 in rewards... Why not just spend $2k instead? Maybe spend the time increasing your income. (I have done this... Rarely would the hassle.)
- kinkrtyavimoodh 9y agoBecause you are probably spending 3K in 3 months anyway. If you absolutely aren't (or you can't hit the minimum spend in other ways [pay for your friends etc.]), sure, don't get the card.
- tertius 9y agoMore work: - cancel the card because yearly fee. - pay tax on churned $. - shorten cumulative account age (lowers credit score). I've done this... Not worth it. Focus on more important things.
- quuquuquu 9y agoYes, however many industries in the US are attempting to "financialize" everything. Debt-lenders no longer can sustain growth on just houses and cars- "let's go after furniture, all consumer goods, technology, payday loans"... etc. It is a good solution for many to "just have money on hand", but when asset prices are inflated due to easy credit, how can I ever have enough to buy in cash?
- tertius 9y agoWait, save, then buy if you still want to. You can buy a house with no credit history. Look it up.
- quuquuquu 9y agoAccording to credit suisse, only 33m people in this world have 1m+ USD of assets. So, out of 3.5 billion adults in this world, only 0.7% have the ability to buy a home in a large city in cash. What, then, should the other 99.3% of people do?
- brndnmtthws 9y agoImprove your skills, increase income, invest and save, live with roommates, learn that consumerism is programmed into people through TV ads and thus is completely unnecessary. Mr. Money Mustache[1] has been blogging about this for years, and it's a great place to start for people who don't understand personal finance. Also check out the personal finance[2] and financial independence[3] subreddits. [1]: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/ https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/ [3]: https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/ https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/
- quadrangle 9y agoAlthough that's all completely good advice for everyone, the facts on the ground are that we can't all be rich. The majority of rich people are the beneficiaries (either directly or indirectly) of an inherently exploitive system. A trivially small number of them actually added true wealth to the world equal to or greater than the wealth they've captured.
- hockley 9y agoHow does this keep people from using your ssn and other stolen information to get a credit card or loan in your name?
- brndnmtthws 9y agoRequest a credit security freeze on all 4 credit bureaus (Equifax, TransUnion, Experian, Innovis).
- astral303 9y agoI have a friend w/o a bank account and he basically can't rent an apartment, ever.
- tertius 9y agoIt's also hard without a credit score. But not impossible but any stretch.
- lucaspiller 9y agoEven if you don't have a line of credit, identity theft is a very common occurrence. If you know you don't owe anything, it's still pretty scary to receive a letter saying your debt has been passed onto a debt collection agency. Last year somebody opened a number of phone contracts and ordered TV (to my house...?) in my name. Here in the UK apparently you just need a name, address and date of birth to walk out of a shop with a brand new iPhone 7. I eventually got it sorted, but it took a couple of months to get every cleared up. I made the mistake of using the phone, although the people I spoke to were helpful, I had to repeat everything from the beginning many times. If it happens again, I'll follow this advice and write letters.
- uiri 9y agoThe advice here is very American-centric and cites US law. You should look up the laws in the UK. Letter writing may not have the same punch that it does in the US.
- patio11 9y agoYou might not care about your credit rating but your credit rating, unfortunately, cares about you. Do you want to rent an apartment in the United States? You will, in many geographical markets, expect to have credit pulled as a matter of course. This is partly to determine ability to pay and partly to determine whether you are socially established; "I have mountains of money, why would I need credit?" is something which is often said by people who operate meth labs. Do you want to work in a job which requires a background investigation? Expect a credit pull. Do you want certain varieties of insurance policies? Expect this list to get longer as time goes on, because "credit" encodes a lot of things which are stupefyingly useful in predicting outcomes in advance. Like any bit of code which is stupefyingly useful, get_fico_score() is going to find its way in all sorts of places you'd never naively expect to see it. Additionally, if someone comes to the mistaken conclusion that you owe them money, the harassment which likely accompanies that is a nuisance even if the dings to your credit score are not.
- brndnmtthws 9y agoI have rented several apartments over the years (mostly in and around San Francisco) and have never once had my credit history checked by any of the rentees. I have a car which I own completely (no loan) and I pay the absolute minimum amount of insurance required in California, which amounts to about $264/year. I'm not saying credit doesn't matter, but the more you can do to limit your attack surface, the less likely you are to be harmed. The absolute best way to protect yourself is to not need to play along in the credit rat race. I keep a security freeze on my credit reports, and never lose sleep. I can safely publish my SSN without giving one single fuck.
- harryh 9y agoI can safely publish my SSN without giving one single fuck. You should do so right here.
- brndnmtthws 9y agocan and should are orthogonal.
- readams 9y agoThe FTC has a site with a lot of helpful information on helping you resolve identity theft, and even will help generate the correct documentation and direct you through the maze. https://www.identitytheft.gov https://www.identitytheft.gov Note the it is literally the business of credit agencies to blithely ruin lives so they will be very unhelpful if they can.
- JoBrad 9y agoHuge differences in quality between your first and second paragraphs. It is the business of credit agencies to serve as proxies of your credit worthiness. They prosper when more people are in the credit pool and are able to take out loans.
- yardie 9y ago> It is the business of credit agencies to serve as proxies of your credit worthiness. Please, the dogma they preach they might as well be a religion. * Where you live affects your credit worthiness. * How long you live there affects your credit worthiness. * The title of your job affects your credit worthiness. * Marital status affects your credit worthiness. * The degree and school you attended affects your credit worthiness. * How long you have a bank account affects your credit worthiness. I haven't even touched on the credit part of credit worthiness, yet. And I know this as these are the bullshit questions I had to answer while we're trying to purchase a home.
- sliverstorm 9y agoWhat, pray tell, do you think affects your credit worthiness?
- patio11 9y agoDo you live in the United States? In the United States: Where you live affects your credit worthiness. Illegal, and radioactively so. The practice was called redlining and a bank engaging in it would have hellfire rained upon it. Marital status affects your credit worthiness. Also illegal. The degree and school you attended affects your credit worthiness. Untrue; credit reports don't include this information. (It is available from specialized vendors for doing things like e.g. verifying resumes, but banks don't habitually employ them because your credit history is much, much more reliable.) The title of your job affects your credit worthiness. Untrue; titles are generally not reported to CRAs, difficult to get out of customers, and difficult to verify. If you wanted to use them in underwriting, for the same amount of effort you can just ask "What is your salary?" and verify it with the employer the same way you'd verify their title; this gets you everything you want in a more reliable fashion, since salary inflation is less common than title inflation.
- g051051 9y agoFinally a breath of fresh air and reason amidst all of the fear mongering and anti-CRA FUD. The system isn't perfect, and consumers are definitely at risk...but it's far more important to really understand the relationship and interplay between CRAs and businesses in order to get a handle on the problems and work towards meaningful reform.
- weirdstuff 9y agoNo, I think we need more FUD given what has just occurred. SSN and sensitive financial data of over half of U.S. adults obtained by criminals. Nice.
- g051051 9y agoWhat "sensitive financial data"?
- traviscj 9y agoCard numbers.
- g051051 9y ago> In addition, credit card numbers for approximately 209,000 consumers and certain dispute documents, which included personal identifying information, for approximately 182,000 consumers were accessed. That's not "half of U.S. adults" as the OP stated.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Aloha 9y agoThe law is mostly on the side of the consumer here though - the real risk is low - if anything it might be harder to get credit in the short term for a while.
- 9y ago
- code4tee 9y agoAll very good advice. The bit about calmly but methodically collecting a paper trail and then reading it back to them is excellent advice for any out of control bureaucracy. Such entities can handle angry irate people all day long, but a calm and collected person that posses ample evidence of documented screw ups and potential illegalities is a bureaucracy's worst nightmare.
- thecrazyone 9y agoThis puts things in perspective. I used to get angry when the other party used to screw up, have stopped getting angry seeing how futile getting angry at a random (and ever changing) customer rep is. This puts calmness in a new perspective
- trishume 9y agoWhen I grow up, I want to be a Dangerous Professional.
- lisper 9y agoWhy wait? You can be a Dangerous Professional at any age. Being able to remain calm in emotional situations is a huge lever in many situations, not just when dealing with bureaucracies. It's almost like a super power. I recommend it.
- astral303 9y ago"Angry people demand; professionals “require.” " YES YES YES--it's not enough to merely be aware of the connotations of your words. You must also be aware of any unintended information conveyed through their use. For example, despite being synonyms, the use of the word "demand" in this context exposes one as an amateur. It doesn't matter if you think this is unfair. It matters that you know all information conveyed, directly or indirectly. (This is incredibly good writing! Great business writing exhibits the characteristics of great code: as simple as possible but no simpler, and unambiguous. Reading this post is worth your time just for the chance to see an example of a relentlessly relevant post.)
- Cederfjard 9y agoSorry, I know this is very minor and beside the point (ironic, given what you just said about relevance), but isn't that exactly what connotation means? >a : the suggesting of a meaning by a word apart from the thing it explicitly names or describes⁰ Or is this perhaps even more meta than that - the choice itself can convey something apart from the semantics of a word, and this isn't something that the word connotation covers? My apologies for sidetracking, you just got me wondering. I'm neither a native speaker nor a linguist, so it's tricky for me to think about these things sometimes. I agree with what you're saying, by the way. [0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/connotation https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/connotation
- patio11 9y agoThe word connotation is typically used to describe inferences that you'd make about a statement given the word used which are widely available to native speakers of that language. Thin, skinny, and gaunt all mean the same thing; only "gaunt" has the connotation that the person described necessarily has a problem. The other poster is describing something a bit more meta than what the word connotation typically covers. They are describing something akin to a shibboleth, a great linguistics word. One's use of a shibboleth is an (often very quiet) signal of membership in an in-group. (c.f. usage #2 here: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shibboleth https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shibboleth ) An example: if someone steals your credit card, and you call your bank to report that, you could describe your requested action as either "opening a dispute" or "filing a chargeback." These are functionally equivalent but saying "chargeback" suggests that you're likely rather sophisticated about the mechanics of credit cards relative to most well-educated people.
- t23 9y agoGreat advice. Thank you for sharing this!
- bichiliad 9y agoI love that this is both informative, seemingly complete, and genuinely useful, and I really hope it gets in front of the people who will need it the most.
- patio11 9y agoIt is, somewhat regrettably to me, not nearly complete. This is the Cliff Notes version -- it's biased towards the most useful particular bits for one particular use case and constrained by the fact that I was trying to write it in a few hours on a Saturday afternoon while still having time to play with my kids.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- sowbug 9y agoIt gets the essential point across. Communication with a CRA is a battle of attrition. This is how to send specific early signals that you'll last longer than they will.
- bichiliad 9y agoI don't disagree, but I imagine if you need up-close detail on this sort of thing, you'll likely also need an attorney of your own.
- sailfast 9y agoThis is quite a useful write-up and I love the way it's written. Thank you. If you are in the United States you also have an option to file a complaint with their government regulator. Consumer Financial protections bureau has a complaint form prominently featured on their website, as does the FTC for non-financial parts. Believe FDIC does for banks as well. Worth a shot and establishes a paper trail quickly!
- eli 9y agoFDIC only regulates some banks, OCC others, FRB takes complaints on Federal Reserve member banks, NCUA does credit unions. It's byzantine. CFPB is probably a good place to start in general.
- JumpCrisscross 9y agoAlso, find your state financial regulator. Mine is the New York Department of Financial Services and they have teeth.
- eropple 9y agoThis is one of the undersold advantages of living in states that care about the decent behavior of corporations operating in their states. It's very expensive to screw people over in them, and so you are more resistant--not immune, of course--to many types of nasty behavior on their part.
- aptwebapps 9y agoIf I saw a new account opened in my name I would be pretty concerned and would probably come back to this post for advice. However, is it necessary to get be this thorough (going to the police, etc) for things like incorrect tradelines in your report? When I first requested my free reports a few years ago all three had multiple tradelines that were not mine and two had a similar situation as Patrick's - namely an account older than me. I used the CRAs' online forms to request they fix them and they did within a few weeks. Didn't seem like that big of a deal.
- squeaky-clean 9y agoIt helps you in the worst case scenario. What would you have done had they never responded or taken any action? Or if they responded with incorrect information / misunderstanding the original claim like they did in the article thinking OP was talking about their child's birthdate, when OP was clearly talking about themselves? It's a relatively small price and additional amount of effort to protect you in a situation that can be very important to you financially for a long time. What if 20 years from now those accounts are reopened in some credit report? Also just anecdotally, but I bank with Chase and their customer service has always been so terrible, I'd expect all these to happen to me.
- aptwebapps 9y agoA paper trail is good, of course, but IIRC, I did receive amended reports from each of the CRAs with letters describing the actions taken. I also suspect that I went through the process more recently than Patrick, I think it was about five years ago. In my case, I was able to select the problematic accounts, what the problems were, and the desired actions all via dropdown elements. There was an additional text box for any extra explanation. This is what made it seem routine and not a big deal.
- stretchwithme 9y agoIt's my understanding that FICO scores are all created using software from FICO. So I don't think the term has become generic as the article implies.
- dredmorbius 9y agoIt depends on the context and strictness of the term. Much of it is the reverse: "credit score" means "FICO score" when you are being assessed, but not when you request a "free credit score".
- milkytron 9y ago> Mean words cannot hurt a bank. Threats cannot hurt a bank. Paper trails, though, are terrifying to regulated institutions. Your bank’s customer support representatives are taught to evaluate whether someone looks like they’re competent and collecting a paper trail. If they are, the CS rep is supposed to stop touching the case immediately and instead escalate them to a supervisor or to the legal department. This is why I record every single one of my phone calls. I've recorded lies over the phone (without knowing they were lying at the time) and then played them back to another customer service rep to prove how I was deceived. I was immediately escalated as the author says and could feel how the evidence gave me power in the situation. Edit: I'm not suggesting anyone break the law. If you're going to record phone calls, know your laws and get consent if necessary. This document which was last updated 3/10/2017 may be of help https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/LAWS-ON-RECORDING-CONVERSATIONS-CHART.pdf https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/LAWS-ON-R...
- patio11 9y agoImportant not-a-lawyer advice: recording phone calls without the other party's consent is illegal in wide swathes of the U.S., but keeping copies of letters is legal everywhere.
- kejaed 9y agoAre you automatically covered if they give the standard boilerplate that they are recording the call?
- jimbobimbo 9y agoExcellent post! I've mailed and emailed CxOs and VPs in the past (not for bank/credit related matters), whenever company's support utterly failed me. Doing this gives a much needed kick in the pants to the bureaucratic machine, which gotten stuck in gear.
- SnowingXIV 9y agoThis is good advice I think in general working with most CS groups. I'm taking this to heart right now in a completely different setting. I'm close to becoming heated but I realize that's not going to help anything. Unfortunately, I've recently had our business credit card blocked from Facebook Advertising after a year of use without warning. Potentially suspending on going campaigns. On Thursday it was removed without my knowledge and was unable to be readded. There is no call center or email at Facebook to reach out to. You're the mercy of their overloaded support inbox system. No matter how much you spend. It's now Saturday and I am receiving multiple calls a day from owner's asking if it's been resolved. I have no recourse aside from praying that I get a response and a correction done.
- mistersquid 9y agoThe kalzumeus.com article is informative and accessible, especially if your identity has been stolen. If your identity has not yet been stolen, the NYTimes has an article titled "Equifax's Instructions Are Confusing. Here's What to Do Now." [0] tl;dr: Freeze requests for your credit data at the big 3: Equifax [1], Experian [2], and Transunion [3]. (Note: these services may require multiple attempts, some persistence, a service fee, or a phone call to an automated system. YMMV.) [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/08/your-money/identity-theft/equifaxs-instructions-are-confusing-heres-what-to-do-now.html [1] https://www.freeze.equifax.com/Freeze/jsp/SFF_PersonalIDInfo.jsp [2] https://www.experian.com/freeze/center.html [3] https://www.transunion.com/credit-freeze/place-credit-freeze EDIT: missing word
- stretchwithme 9y agoVery useful links. Thanks. I'd like to know how I can determine what services have such a hold in place for me. This is all pretty absurd. Why should we have to pay to not have our credit history disclosed? We should pay when we want to have it disclosed. Then I would have to pay THREE different companies to not disclose it. Or keep track of which ones won't disclose it. The European model of you owning your own information is making more and more sense.
- knicholes 9y agoIt sounds like extortion to me. I wouldn't be surprised if the data leak was an intentional move to provide incentive to people to sign up for their credit monitoring services or unfreeze fees.
- chrsstrm 9y agoWhen a company "pulls" your credit they are not given the report for free. Equifax and the like sell a credit reporting service to banks and other companies who would want to see your credit history. When you freeze your report, reporting agencies are not allowed to sell your report to anyone, at your request, meaning they are losing revenue. The freeze fee makes sense when you realize your report is the product they are selling. "You're not allowing us to make money? Fine, then you need to help make up the difference with a fee." Just like stockbrokers, they are intent on making money both coming and going.
- phant0mas 9y agoI see the same thing with all my family and friends. Whenever they have to do something that involves bureaucracy, they give up and/or start shouting. Especially in Greece, where the public sector and the banks depend on you giving up. Personally I always make sure to go fully prepared, with every legal paper ready before hand, and having ready answers/solution for every possible issue. And above all else I talk as polite as I possibly can, showing respect and making sure I am asking clear and direct questions. And I always double check their answers. As a result I always get my job done. Funny story: I once needed a signature from the tax office director. While I was at her office and she was taking quite some time to check every thing, looking for something wrong to send me away, her phone rang. The house next to hers caught on fire. She started search for the fire departments phone number and she couldn't find it. Luckily I had my phone with me, googled it really fast and told her the number. Got the paper signed in a instant after that.
- thecrazyone 9y agoI feel sad every time I hear things like this. That we've to be happy that we got our job done even when all our documents are in the clear. Or that we've to hope get some favor from them by fawning (not alleging that you did that). It makes me feel like we're treated like dumb children by our governments.
- foxyv 9y ago> It makes me feel like we're treated like dumb children by our governments. Bingo.
- uiri 9y agoI am a shareholder in BigBank. I was therefore profoundly displeased when I learned... This is amazing. It is also trivially true for anyone who holds an S&P 500 index fund or similar when dealing with American Express, Bank of America, Capital One, Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase, US Bancorp, and Wells Fargo among a few others.
- anitil 9y agoI didn't understand how smart it was until I read your comment!
- seanalltogether 9y agoDoes anyone know what I can do as an US citizen abroad to protect myself now? I tried to get a free copy of my credit report but it required a us address to process. I tried to set up an account to freeze my credit but those require a us address as well.
- dredmorbius 9y agoRead TFA.
- seanalltogether 9y agoTFA says to order a free credit report or put freezes on your accounts, which as I just mentioned require usa addresses.
- dredmorbius 9y agoWrite letters. Explain your situation. Make not fixing your problem a bigger problem than fixing your problem. Do so credibly. That's the meta-message of TFA.
- dang 9y agoWould you please not break the site guidelines like this? If established users set such a bad example I don't see what hope there is for new ones.
- dredmorbius 9y agoFair enough and I attempted correcting that in a second follow-up.
- tombrossman 9y agoNo idea, but I asked the same thing on the expats Stack Exchange site earlier today[0]. No responses yet, maybe we have to wait until Monday and call them? You might also contact the US Embassy in your country and ask. I had a similar problem with signing up for an online "my Social Security" account, and learned that it is impossible. The US Embassy in London wrote back: "You must have a U.S. mailing address in order to create a my Social Security account and cannot open an account without one." Having a credit record in the USA is no longer important as I do not plan to return, but you would think the credit reporting agencies should have some way of telling them "I'm long gone, if you see a credit application from the USA it's definitely fraudulent". Can't be done I guess. [0]https://expatriates.stackexchange.com/questions/12104/how-can-us-citizens-living-overseas-freeze-their-credit https://expatriates.stackexchange.com/questions/12104/how-ca...
- the_watcher 9y agoThis is great advice for writing professional demand letters in general, beyond just identity theft-related.
- tylercubell 9y agoThe CFPB should definitely be added to the list of lawyer alternatives. I had a minor issue with a bank and filing a complaint with the CFPB got it quickly resolved whereas my state's consumer protection division didn't even bother writing back.
- andrewhillman 9y ago"These days they have streamlined online applications for writing to them, but I suggest that you only send them paper letters. This is a really weird thing for a technologist to suggest, but when you send paper letters, you can establish and own a “paper trail.” When you type words into their godawful web applications and hit submit, you will likely fail to retain a copy of those words and fail to retain records about what they told you (exactly) and when. This will complicate your resolution with them. Communicate with them only over postal mail. Keep a log of every mail you send (including what you said) and when it was sent; keep a copy of every letter they send to you and when it was sent. You don’t need physical copies; digital is fine. I like organizing all of mine on a per-incident basis in Dropbox." YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEND LETTERS WITH 'USPS RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED.' (It's the green card you get at the post office and once the recipient receives your letter, you will get a green card in the mail serving as proof of delivery and acceptance.) This is the lowest costing form of legal proof for a paper trail. Well worth it. I use it all the time and I learned this from my dad who has spent his life practicing law.
- dctoedt 9y ago> YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEND LETTERS WITH 'USPS RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED.' (It's the green card you get at the post office and once the recipient receives your letter, you will get a green card in the mail serving as proof of delivery and acceptance.) Also: 1) Get the actual green-card form beforehand; 2) type the green-card serial number above the inside address of the letter; and 3) keep a photocopy. Otherwise the recipient could claim that the signed green card, confirming receipt of the mailing, was for some other letter, not the one you sent. As a baby lawyer filling in for a more-senior associate at a court hearing, I had an opposing counsel make just such a claim to a judge; the judge gave the opposing counsel the benefit of the doubt. (The opposing counsel was later disbarred for unrelated reasons.) Example of such an inside address: --begin-- VIA CERTIFIED MAIL NO. 123456789 Evil Corporation 9876 Main Street Anytown, Anystate 54321-9876 Attention: Department of Fobbing People Off To whom it may concern: [etc.] --end--
- whitenoice 9y agoCurious, can you not ask them to produce the other letter then? As they signed the green card.
- lifeisstillgood 9y agoJust a thank you to patio11 - I got a phone call from a debt collector yesterday, over something I thought I had finally persuaded the original owner was incorrect. (Mobile phone bill iymk) I was going to call them Monday, but of course, now I will write :-)
- ajb 9y ago"Do not sign up for credit monitoring; it is a great revenue source for credit reporting agencies but almost never a good purchase for consumers." Further to this, UK customers can get free access to their Equifax credit report via Clearscore.com anyway. And the experian one via moneysavingexpert credit club.
- smoll 9y agoI enjoyed reading this. Question for patio11 or others more knowledgeable about this - could a chatbot similar to the one being used to fight traffic tickets be useful in keeping a paper trail and putting the fear of god into banks/CRAs when this happens? Because why not automate this, especially for people who aren't as articulate/level-headed/organized, who might otherwise bungle it?
- patio11 9y agoDecision trees for interpretation of the law are fraught; talk to a lawyer about where the line is. The reason for not automating communications is in the post. The CRAs have carte blanche to straight-up ignore anything which they think comes from an automated process or a firm/organization specializing in helping people with their credit. Could you potentially automate some of the record keeping? Possibly. Could you automate the sending of paper? Certainly. Automating the receipt of paper is tricky since, for all the predictable reasons, someone last living at 123 Maple St will have a lot of difficulty telling the bank or CRA to mail them at 1234 Commercial Parkway Suite 666 to discuss their credit. (You can do it, and I have done it, but expect to be put through some identity verification hoops.)
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