6 ms·

There were times when he could be a real jerk: "How Jerry Pournelle got kicked off the ARPANET" http://www.stormtiger.org/bob/humor/pournell/story.html http://

by mrbill 9y ago

There were times when he could be a real jerk: "How Jerry Pournelle got kicked off the ARPANET" http://www.stormtiger.org/bob/humor/pournell/story.html http://www.stormtiger.org/bob/humor/pournell/story.html However, I enjoyed his writings, both SF and his column in BYTE. Rest in peace, Mr. Pournelle.

jacquesm 9y ago
I don't think he's the one that comes off as a jerk in that thread. Of course that's with decades of hindsight but here we are on 'ARPANET' and we can talk about it freely. Think of him as slightly ahead of his time.
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  He was so far ahead of his time, he would be working for the Trump administration if he were younger. They would have loved his enthusiasm for social darwinism. "Think of it as evolution in action." -POURNE http://www.independent.com/news/2017/mar/23/trump-making-social-darwinism-sexy-again/ http://www.independent.com/news/2017/mar/23/trump-making-soc... "By cannibalizing expanded Medicaid coverage to the tune of $880 billion, Trump and the Republicans can justify massive tax cuts for a group who needs them the least, the very wealthy and reasonably healthy. [...] Trump and the Republicans have seized upon a much bolder solution: Cut costs by making health care accessible to those who need it least — the young, healthy, and rich." https://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/trump-is-the-candidate-2/ https://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/trump-is-the-candi... "So what do I do? I agree with nearly everything he is for, but I’m better qualified to make it happen. I avoid some issues, but I go for his most popular ones and say, yeah! Want that! And I can make it happen better than he can. I’ve got the experience of working in government, but I’m not the establishment any more than Mr. Trump is. Heck, I’ll offer him a cabinet post. I could use his energy in my administration." -POURNE http://voxday.blogspot.nl/2016/04/jerry-pournelle-on-donald-trump.html http://voxday.blogspot.nl/2016/04/jerry-pournelle-on-donald-... "But he has never wavered on his desire to fill the Supreme Court with Justices as near in scholarship and view to Scalia as possible; that alone would be enough to get me to the polls for Trump if he’s nominated." -POURNE "One thing that is known about ARPA: you can be heaved off it for supporting the policies of the Department of Defense. Of course that was intended to anger me. If you have an ARPA account, please tell CSTACY that he was successful; now let us see if my Pentagon friends can upset him. Or perhaps some reporter friends. Or both., Or even the House Armed Services Committee." -POURNE "The man has learned nothing from his presence on MC and sets a bad example of what people might potentially accomplish there. I'd rather recycle his account for some bright 12-yr-old...)" -KMP
  - superkuh 9y ago
    > Pournelle claims that he heard at a science fiction convention that you (chris) had said that the real reason his account was flushed was that ``he (pournelle) is a fascist.'' Given the current political climate, this could raise some sort of ruckus, so it would probably be good to nip this in the bud. Nice to know the internet hasn't changed that much.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - Zuider 9y ago
      I wonder if this is the first instance of politically motivated mobbing behavior to take place over a digital communications medium? In which case, it is an important historical document in its own right. It has the same structure as modern digital witch-hunts: 1) A group of individuals apparently incensed at some minor infarction by their target. 2) It is not entirely clear why the behavior of their target is wrong, or why it should merit excommunication. 3) The group displays incongruous rage at their target given the apparent wrongdoing, using terms that focus on the target's character rather than the nature of his putative wrongdoing. 4) Certain members of the group are unable to contain themselves and let slip references to the real source of their rage. 5) The expulsion is done by a minor player who does not necessarily take part in the discussion. 6) The summary reason given for the expulsion is different from, and even contradicts the original issue. R.I.P Jerry Pournelle. Fearless, and always first into the fray.
      - gumby 9y ago
        > I wonder if this is the first instance of politically motivated mobbing behavior to take place over a digital communications medium? It was not politically motivated (I am in that thread from 1985). Pournelle was a pain in the neck when drunk. And a blowhard (which is hardly a crime, but doesn't make people sympathetic when you call them assholes and then tell them to do things for you). As for the proxmiring: he was one of the common offenders; he loved to talk archly about how he was part of the insider elite, while claiming that that was proof of his democratic ideals. FWIW I did read some of his novels.
coldtea 9y ago
If anything it's the other guys that come off as HUGE jerks in this. Their whole argument is how he shouldn't speak in public about ARPANET and that (quoting exactly): "The more attention you (and other people) draw to non-blow-em-up use of the arpanet the more likely some Proxmire type is to start inquiring into its operations.". So, let's keep it to our small boys club. Fuck them. If anything Pournelle's exposure of it helped it get into more people's minds, and open sooner.
- mcguire 9y ago
  In 1985?
  - coldtea 9y ago
    Yes, why not in 1985?
    - mrbill 9y ago
      In 1985, it was the ARPAnet (research) and MILnet (military/government). It was funded by the US Government, and was not the open "Internet" we enjoy today, which consists of thousands of privately-owned interconnected networks. Pournelle was a GUEST USER of a system at MIT, accessing it through an ARPAnet dialup node (of which he did not have official permission to use). The admins of said system requested that he not talk about non-official use of the ARPAnet in his BYTE column (so that the government people funding the network, not ask "why does this scifi writer have access to these systems?"). He persisted, and then he decided to be rude and mouth off to the people that ran the system he was a guest user of. When they got tired of it and locked his account, he threatened to use his contacts / influence to make things difficult for them, and falsely claimed it was due to politics and not his own entitled attitude. How is that not being a huge jerk? Honestly, that's well into a-hole territory in my opinion.
      - coldtea 9y ago
        >The admins of said system requested that he not talk about non-official use of the ARPAnet in his BYTE column (so that the government people funding the network, not ask "why does this scifi writer have access to these systems?"). I get all that -- I even quoted where they suggested the non-military it should be kept from the military guys. What I say is that not having it kept >How is that not being a huge jerk? First, those people weren't the creators and payers of ARPAnet. The US government and the "military guys" were. So he wasn't "their guest" to begin with. They just administered it. The admins of a system are not owners -- nor are their pals who they let in covertly. Second, (and this holds whether you are a guest or not) if you're invited somewhere and see guys keeping a good thing to themselves and not wanting it to get noticed by the masses, you're not a jerk to dismiss their "radio silence" rule, and tell others about it. They're the jerks for being silent about it (even if that was just out of fear from having it shut down). Clearly the ARPAnet needed to open up to more people -- and eventually get to something like the internet. Keeping silent about the "non-official use" because you are lucky to be in would be cowardly and selfish (I'm in, screw the masses, they don't have to know such a thing exists and people could potentially get join if we opened it up).
stefantalpalaru 9y ago
> "How Jerry Pournelle got kicked off the ARPANET" One of us.

by mrbill 9y ago

jacquesm 9y ago

I don't think he's the one that comes off as a jerk in that thread. Of course that's with decades of hindsight but here we are on 'ARPANET' and we can talk about it freely. Think of him as slightly ahead of his time.

DonHopkins 9y ago
He was so far ahead of his time, he would be working for the Trump administration if he were younger. They would have loved his enthusiasm for social darwinism. "Think of it as evolution in action." -POURNE http://www.independent.com/news/2017/mar/23/trump-making-social-darwinism-sexy-again/ http://www.independent.com/news/2017/mar/23/trump-making-soc... "By cannibalizing expanded Medicaid coverage to the tune of $880 billion, Trump and the Republicans can justify massive tax cuts for a group who needs them the least, the very wealthy and reasonably healthy. [...] Trump and the Republicans have seized upon a much bolder solution: Cut costs by making health care accessible to those who need it least — the young, healthy, and rich." https://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/trump-is-the-candidate-2/ https://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/trump-is-the-candi... "So what do I do? I agree with nearly everything he is for, but I’m better qualified to make it happen. I avoid some issues, but I go for his most popular ones and say, yeah! Want that! And I can make it happen better than he can. I’ve got the experience of working in government, but I’m not the establishment any more than Mr. Trump is. Heck, I’ll offer him a cabinet post. I could use his energy in my administration." -POURNE http://voxday.blogspot.nl/2016/04/jerry-pournelle-on-donald-trump.html http://voxday.blogspot.nl/2016/04/jerry-pournelle-on-donald-... "But he has never wavered on his desire to fill the Supreme Court with Justices as near in scholarship and view to Scalia as possible; that alone would be enough to get me to the polls for Trump if he’s nominated." -POURNE "One thing that is known about ARPA: you can be heaved off it for supporting the policies of the Department of Defense. Of course that was intended to anger me. If you have an ARPA account, please tell CSTACY that he was successful; now let us see if my Pentagon friends can upset him. Or perhaps some reporter friends. Or both., Or even the House Armed Services Committee." -POURNE "The man has learned nothing from his presence on MC and sets a bad example of what people might potentially accomplish there. I'd rather recycle his account for some bright 12-yr-old...)" -KMP
- superkuh 9y ago
  > Pournelle claims that he heard at a science fiction convention that you (chris) had said that the real reason his account was flushed was that ``he (pournelle) is a fascist.'' Given the current political climate, this could raise some sort of ruckus, so it would probably be good to nip this in the bud. Nice to know the internet hasn't changed that much.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - Zuider 9y ago
    I wonder if this is the first instance of politically motivated mobbing behavior to take place over a digital communications medium? In which case, it is an important historical document in its own right. It has the same structure as modern digital witch-hunts: 1) A group of individuals apparently incensed at some minor infarction by their target. 2) It is not entirely clear why the behavior of their target is wrong, or why it should merit excommunication. 3) The group displays incongruous rage at their target given the apparent wrongdoing, using terms that focus on the target's character rather than the nature of his putative wrongdoing. 4) Certain members of the group are unable to contain themselves and let slip references to the real source of their rage. 5) The expulsion is done by a minor player who does not necessarily take part in the discussion. 6) The summary reason given for the expulsion is different from, and even contradicts the original issue. R.I.P Jerry Pournelle. Fearless, and always first into the fray.
    - gumby 9y ago
      > I wonder if this is the first instance of politically motivated mobbing behavior to take place over a digital communications medium? It was not politically motivated (I am in that thread from 1985). Pournelle was a pain in the neck when drunk. And a blowhard (which is hardly a crime, but doesn't make people sympathetic when you call them assholes and then tell them to do things for you). As for the proxmiring: he was one of the common offenders; he loved to talk archly about how he was part of the insider elite, while claiming that that was proof of his democratic ideals. FWIW I did read some of his novels.

coldtea 9y ago

If anything it's the other guys that come off as HUGE jerks in this. Their whole argument is how he shouldn't speak in public about ARPANET and that (quoting exactly): "The more attention you (and other people) draw to non-blow-em-up use of the arpanet the more likely some Proxmire type is to start inquiring into its operations.". So, let's keep it to our small boys club. Fuck them. If anything Pournelle's exposure of it helped it get into more people's minds, and open sooner.

mcguire 9y ago
In 1985?
- coldtea 9y ago
  Yes, why not in 1985?
  - mrbill 9y ago
    In 1985, it was the ARPAnet (research) and MILnet (military/government). It was funded by the US Government, and was not the open "Internet" we enjoy today, which consists of thousands of privately-owned interconnected networks. Pournelle was a GUEST USER of a system at MIT, accessing it through an ARPAnet dialup node (of which he did not have official permission to use). The admins of said system requested that he not talk about non-official use of the ARPAnet in his BYTE column (so that the government people funding the network, not ask "why does this scifi writer have access to these systems?"). He persisted, and then he decided to be rude and mouth off to the people that ran the system he was a guest user of. When they got tired of it and locked his account, he threatened to use his contacts / influence to make things difficult for them, and falsely claimed it was due to politics and not his own entitled attitude. How is that not being a huge jerk? Honestly, that's well into a-hole territory in my opinion.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      >The admins of said system requested that he not talk about non-official use of the ARPAnet in his BYTE column (so that the government people funding the network, not ask "why does this scifi writer have access to these systems?"). I get all that -- I even quoted where they suggested the non-military it should be kept from the military guys. What I say is that not having it kept >How is that not being a huge jerk? First, those people weren't the creators and payers of ARPAnet. The US government and the "military guys" were. So he wasn't "their guest" to begin with. They just administered it. The admins of a system are not owners -- nor are their pals who they let in covertly. Second, (and this holds whether you are a guest or not) if you're invited somewhere and see guys keeping a good thing to themselves and not wanting it to get noticed by the masses, you're not a jerk to dismiss their "radio silence" rule, and tell others about it. They're the jerks for being silent about it (even if that was just out of fear from having it shut down). Clearly the ARPAnet needed to open up to more people -- and eventually get to something like the internet. Keeping silent about the "non-official use" because you are lucky to be in would be cowardly and selfish (I'm in, screw the masses, they don't have to know such a thing exists and people could potentially get join if we opened it up).

stefantalpalaru 9y ago

> "How Jerry Pournelle got kicked off the ARPANET" One of us.