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Lol, this article is complete crap. No restaurant wants you to not order something. What they want is you, coming in the door, having a good time and ordering

Lol, this article is complete crap. No restaurant wants you to not order something. What they want is you, coming in the door, having a good time and ordering a bit of everything. Now if some restaurants have items they feel differentiates them from other, they want you to have some of that. But there was never an instance where, when I designed a menu (worked as a cook/chef in some pretty high end places, including one ranked in the top 100 in the world), I ever wanted someone to not order something. Edit - I love it, downvoted by a bunch of people who have likely never worked in a restaurant let alone designed a menu or ran a restaurant.

QAPereo 9y ago
The really important line: Now, this isn’t some kind of a scam where the restaurant rips you off. The restaurant can’t make you order you something you don’t want. No kidding. That being said, maybe this all makes more sense in the context of "stuff that doesn't work, but consultants can still sell" rather than ever mattering to the diner.
- Mikeb85 9y ago
  Yeah pretty much. Menu consultants always try to apply some sort of arcane knowledge they think restaurant people don't have, that's the only way they justify their fee.
- MrTonyD 9y ago
  You know, there are marketing studies contradicting that. It is possible to take people who don't want things, but present things to them as having other characteristics which they do want. The end effect is people buying things they really don't want. This was done way back in the 50's - and it is the essence of propaganda. Sometimes, being naive on a subject is dangerous. And trying to convince others about "common sense" without informed knowledge is even worse.
  - QAPereo 9y ago
    I didn't say anything about "common sense" though, even a little. I also didn't say anything about marketing or advertising not working, I'm just talking about this specific situation which is pretty laughable.
averagewall 9y ago
Criticizing people's judgement based on their perceived qualifications or experience is offensive and often wrong. Just because you did something doesn't mean you understand it better than someone who didn't do it. It can actually hamper understanding by narrowing your viewpoint or causing you to overvalue your knowledge. I see this all the time among poorly educated people - "I've driven trucks for 20 years, I know how dynamic instability works."
- Mikeb85 9y ago
  First, the article is from a consultancy. Not even one that specialises in restaurants, but one that specialises mostly in retail it seems from their website. Now their arguments: > Consider the following example from a restaurant in New York. The sweet spot contains two expensive seafood platters (plateaux de fruits de mer). With the added illustration and a touch of color, these items are designed to draw attention to themselves. This part is correct. They obviously want to bring attention to their seafood choices. > You can probably guess that these platters bring in higher profits than some of the other menu items. This part is so far off it's not even funny. Seafood isn't cheap. Seafood platters don't have good food cost. There's no starches, no vegetables to balance the cost of the protein. The point of drawing you to these items is because seafood itself is a draw - it's the draw that brings you into the restaurant itself. And hopefully you get some bubbly, maybe some sides, or maybe you're just having oysters before your steak and red wine. > Price It Right You don't say... Anyhow, restaurants are about hospitality. There's no funny psychology. Yes you want nice menus and yes you want nice descriptions. You want to bring in diners who order a bit of everything, with some alcohol. You cater to some tastes, offer new tastes, bring in novel items, at the end of the day you do want balanced ordering though, so as to have minimal spoilage. Your concept, decor and cuisine should differentiate, prices should reflect your market, but again, there's no funny business as far as menus go. Simpler is better, menus with less than 15 items are in vogue right now. As for broadening my horizon - 10 years of high end cooking, 5 years serving and bartending, and I went to school for econ/business. I'm obviously here to learn about things like programming and technology, and I'd pretty good with both of those, having done CS courses and used various stats packages and languages throughout school. Restaurants do embrace modernity (POS systems keep track of sales mixes, and we'd examine them every single day, keep track of various trends, including past years, etc...), but what they don't embrace is leeches like consultants who prey on the mom and pop diner who aren't savvy enough to know the difference. Also, the article was a pretty sad analysis of menu development and pricing. Might as well have been an ad in the corner of an industry magazine.
intellix 9y ago
Not sure I can say it's complete crap. There's a fairly cheap place that list items like: - Chicken - Pork And when I'm looking at the menu I'm thinking... ugh, can't really find anything that sounds any good. The food comes and it's amazing. I go to a fancyish place and when it's described better, it sounds amazing. I feel what the article said about describing food should be common-sense tbh

QAPereo 9y ago

The really important line: Now, this isn’t some kind of a scam where the restaurant rips you off. The restaurant can’t make you order you something you don’t want. No kidding. That being said, maybe this all makes more sense in the context of "stuff that doesn't work, but consultants can still sell" rather than ever mattering to the diner.

Mikeb85 9y ago
Yeah pretty much. Menu consultants always try to apply some sort of arcane knowledge they think restaurant people don't have, that's the only way they justify their fee.
MrTonyD 9y ago
You know, there are marketing studies contradicting that. It is possible to take people who don't want things, but present things to them as having other characteristics which they do want. The end effect is people buying things they really don't want. This was done way back in the 50's - and it is the essence of propaganda. Sometimes, being naive on a subject is dangerous. And trying to convince others about "common sense" without informed knowledge is even worse.
- QAPereo 9y ago
  I didn't say anything about "common sense" though, even a little. I also didn't say anything about marketing or advertising not working, I'm just talking about this specific situation which is pretty laughable.

averagewall 9y ago

Criticizing people's judgement based on their perceived qualifications or experience is offensive and often wrong. Just because you did something doesn't mean you understand it better than someone who didn't do it. It can actually hamper understanding by narrowing your viewpoint or causing you to overvalue your knowledge. I see this all the time among poorly educated people - "I've driven trucks for 20 years, I know how dynamic instability works."

Mikeb85 9y ago
First, the article is from a consultancy. Not even one that specialises in restaurants, but one that specialises mostly in retail it seems from their website. Now their arguments: > Consider the following example from a restaurant in New York. The sweet spot contains two expensive seafood platters (plateaux de fruits de mer). With the added illustration and a touch of color, these items are designed to draw attention to themselves. This part is correct. They obviously want to bring attention to their seafood choices. > You can probably guess that these platters bring in higher profits than some of the other menu items. This part is so far off it's not even funny. Seafood isn't cheap. Seafood platters don't have good food cost. There's no starches, no vegetables to balance the cost of the protein. The point of drawing you to these items is because seafood itself is a draw - it's the draw that brings you into the restaurant itself. And hopefully you get some bubbly, maybe some sides, or maybe you're just having oysters before your steak and red wine. > Price It Right You don't say... Anyhow, restaurants are about hospitality. There's no funny psychology. Yes you want nice menus and yes you want nice descriptions. You want to bring in diners who order a bit of everything, with some alcohol. You cater to some tastes, offer new tastes, bring in novel items, at the end of the day you do want balanced ordering though, so as to have minimal spoilage. Your concept, decor and cuisine should differentiate, prices should reflect your market, but again, there's no funny business as far as menus go. Simpler is better, menus with less than 15 items are in vogue right now. As for broadening my horizon - 10 years of high end cooking, 5 years serving and bartending, and I went to school for econ/business. I'm obviously here to learn about things like programming and technology, and I'd pretty good with both of those, having done CS courses and used various stats packages and languages throughout school. Restaurants do embrace modernity (POS systems keep track of sales mixes, and we'd examine them every single day, keep track of various trends, including past years, etc...), but what they don't embrace is leeches like consultants who prey on the mom and pop diner who aren't savvy enough to know the difference. Also, the article was a pretty sad analysis of menu development and pricing. Might as well have been an ad in the corner of an industry magazine.

intellix 9y ago

Not sure I can say it's complete crap. There's a fairly cheap place that list items like: - Chicken - Pork And when I'm looking at the menu I'm thinking... ugh, can't really find anything that sounds any good. The food comes and it's amazing. I go to a fancyish place and when it's described better, it sounds amazing. I feel what the article said about describing food should be common-sense tbh