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There are most certainly many things deeply wrong. Most people have negative savings every year. They have more debt. If one has bought a house, then it is ver

There are most certainly many things deeply wrong. Most people have negative savings every year. They have more debt. If one has bought a house, then it is very easy to go into more debt every year, when house prices are rising. Then they fall. Since the beginning of written history (the first written records are records of debts) there are stories and parables about the evil of debt and the need for debt jubilees. Also the idea that lending with interest is immoral is found through out time. Having such easy access to debt/credit from strangers seems not to work well over the long term for human societies. I mean, is it a good thing that one can get a "Rocket Mortgage" where you can "Get Approved Fast. Get an approval to buy a home or refinance your mortgage in minutes."? [1] [1] https://rocket.quickenloans.com/ https://rocket.quickenloans.com/

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> Since the beginning of written history (the first written records are records of debts) there are stories and parables about the evil of debt and the need for debt jubilees. Also the idea that lending with interest is immoral is found through out time. Having such easy access to debt/credit from strangers seems not to work well over the long term for human societies. I suppose shrimp and pork and beef are also unquestionably evil... Debt didn't historically work because property rights were poorly recorded. This meant enforcing one's debt involved mafia tactics. Modern debt is cleaner and subject to bankruptcy, a process that occurs on a case-by-case basis when it's needed, a far better solution than randomly cancelling debt every so many years.
- meric 9y ago
  Well, the trend is now removing bankruptcy on certain forms of debt as an option, replacing it with cancelling it after X years. This is student debt.
  - jhall1468 9y ago
    That isn't new and it only applies to very specific cases: student debt is one of a very short lists of debt that aren't cancelable via bankruptcy.
    - dilemma 9y ago
      It is new.
WalterBright 9y ago
Easy access to credit is an important component to a free market. Making borrowing illegal just leads to all sorts of inefficient contortions to do it another way. For example, businesses often need to borrow money in order to get started. For another, "bridge" loans and "revolving lines of credit" allow a business to operate when the timing of receiving payments does not line up with the timing of when bills are due. Forgiving debts means that interest rates must rise to cover those losses.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  > Forgiving debts means that interest rates must rise to cover those losses. Exactly. Interests rates are way too low at the moment.
- njarboe 9y ago
  I agree credit can be very useful and good, but most people are not using debt to try an investment that allows them to pay back the debt and make some profit. They are buying consumables: dinners out, clothing, gadgets, vacations, cars, even housing is really a cost of something you are using. A depreciating asset and not an investment. I think it would be really good to use some of this education everyone gets to get across the fact that consuming using debt with is very bad. Some counter to all the other marketing in the world that says, "Buy, buy, buy". Not immune to it myself.
  - AstralStorm 9y ago
    The problem again is that consuming using available funds is not possible if you need to work 10 years of median salary for it - that in the more affordable states. The figures mentioned use full salary, in reality you might get some 50% of that possible to allocate to paying off the debt. You still get to pay utilities, cost of life for the family, transportation, education and probably extras. Note I've even ignored any savings - and with high mortgage debt, you can be wiped out by any more expensive health problem.
    - njarboe 9y ago

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> Since the beginning of written history (the first written records are records of debts) there are stories and parables about the evil of debt and the need for debt jubilees. Also the idea that lending with interest is immoral is found through out time. Having such easy access to debt/credit from strangers seems not to work well over the long term for human societies. I suppose shrimp and pork and beef are also unquestionably evil... Debt didn't historically work because property rights were poorly recorded. This meant enforcing one's debt involved mafia tactics. Modern debt is cleaner and subject to bankruptcy, a process that occurs on a case-by-case basis when it's needed, a far better solution than randomly cancelling debt every so many years.

meric 9y ago
Well, the trend is now removing bankruptcy on certain forms of debt as an option, replacing it with cancelling it after X years. This is student debt.
- jhall1468 9y ago
  That isn't new and it only applies to very specific cases: student debt is one of a very short lists of debt that aren't cancelable via bankruptcy.
  - dilemma 9y ago
    It is new.

WalterBright 9y ago

Easy access to credit is an important component to a free market. Making borrowing illegal just leads to all sorts of inefficient contortions to do it another way. For example, businesses often need to borrow money in order to get started. For another, "bridge" loans and "revolving lines of credit" allow a business to operate when the timing of receiving payments does not line up with the timing of when bills are due. Forgiving debts means that interest rates must rise to cover those losses.

ekianjo 9y ago
> Forgiving debts means that interest rates must rise to cover those losses. Exactly. Interests rates are way too low at the moment.
njarboe 9y ago
I agree credit can be very useful and good, but most people are not using debt to try an investment that allows them to pay back the debt and make some profit. They are buying consumables: dinners out, clothing, gadgets, vacations, cars, even housing is really a cost of something you are using. A depreciating asset and not an investment. I think it would be really good to use some of this education everyone gets to get across the fact that consuming using debt with is very bad. Some counter to all the other marketing in the world that says, "Buy, buy, buy". Not immune to it myself.
- AstralStorm 9y ago
  The problem again is that consuming using available funds is not possible if you need to work 10 years of median salary for it - that in the more affordable states. The figures mentioned use full salary, in reality you might get some 50% of that possible to allocate to paying off the debt. You still get to pay utilities, cost of life for the family, transportation, education and probably extras. Note I've even ignored any savings - and with high mortgage debt, you can be wiped out by any more expensive health problem.
  - njarboe 9y ago