4 ms·

Ha, well in non-major cities you're right, but all the major cities cost an arm and a leg for the most part!

zaroth 9y ago
Well the only way to drive down price is to either increase supply or decrease demand. So make cities shitier and denser. Is this a case where a small increase in supply would decrease the price significantly? I doubt it. So, is there some reason we (as a nation) need to double population density of our largest cities? With the huge advances we are likely to see in autonomous zero-emission delivery infrastructure and remote communication over the next 20 years, not to mention the increasing likelihood of natural disasters and WMDs hitting these cities, I really don't see the point of pushing for so much urban growth.
- brightball 9y ago
  Because I keep seeing articles pop up over the last few years trying to convince me that suburbs are basically evil incarnate for some reason. It gets to the point where it feels like a political platform.
  - zaroth 9y ago
    There's definitely a political platform here. Economic models claiming suburbs are beyond bankrupt and destined for failure. [1] Apparently my property taxes can't even cover the cost of pavement and water mains, and yet we just built a new school, and are in the process of planning a $20 million library. [1] - https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/1/9/the-real-reason-your-city-has-no-money https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/1/9/the-real-reason...
    - throwawayjava 9y ago
      > Apparently my property taxes can't even cover the cost of pavement and water mains, and yet we just built a new school, and are in the process of planning a $20 million library From the link: "If they operated on accrual accounting -- where you account for your long term liabilities -- instead of a cash basis -- where you don't -- they would have been bankrupt decades ago" The PF analogy to what you're saying is "yeah I'm dipping into savings to make mortgage payments and need to replace my roof next year and repair a major crack in the foundation. But they let me open a credit card and get a loan for a car, so what's the problem?"
- kelnos 9y ago
  > Well the only way to drive down price is to either increase supply or decrease demand. So make cities shitier and denser. That's just, like, your opinion, man. I prefer living in denser environments.
  - zaroth 9y ago
    Shitier may be orthogonal to denser. But to your point, if denser is so much better, will increased density lead to lower prices, or just create more demand and keep prices the same?
majormajor 9y ago
Leave the coasts and you can find all sorts of multiple-million-people cities with far cheaper housing.
- twobyfour 9y ago
  Are you sure about that? There are only a couple cities in the US other than NYC and LA that have populations of 2M or more, and only 10 cities total with populations above a million in the last census.
  - matthewbauer 9y ago
    If you count entire metro areas, there are at least 50.
ghaff 9y ago
In addition to less expensive cities, in many in-demand cities (SF not so much), it's actually possible to live in many nice suburbs/exurbs for a lot less money. That's often even where most of the tech jobs are. Boston/Cambridge? Expensive. But 45 mins or so out? Far less so. And you're closer to where most of the jobs are anyway. The urban cores may be a lifestyle choice. But it's a luxury choice in many cases. Not a place that someone actually has to live if they want to work.

Well the only way to drive down price is to either increase supply or decrease demand. So make cities shitier and denser. Is this a case where a small increase in supply would decrease the price significantly? I doubt it. So, is there some reason we (as a nation) need to double population density of our largest cities? With the huge advances we are likely to see in autonomous zero-emission delivery infrastructure and remote communication over the next 20 years, not to mention the increasing likelihood of natural disasters and WMDs hitting these cities, I really don't see the point of pushing for so much urban growth.

brightball 9y ago
Because I keep seeing articles pop up over the last few years trying to convince me that suburbs are basically evil incarnate for some reason. It gets to the point where it feels like a political platform.
- zaroth 9y ago
  There's definitely a political platform here. Economic models claiming suburbs are beyond bankrupt and destined for failure. [1] Apparently my property taxes can't even cover the cost of pavement and water mains, and yet we just built a new school, and are in the process of planning a $20 million library. [1] - https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/1/9/the-real-reason-your-city-has-no-money https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/1/9/the-real-reason...
  - throwawayjava 9y ago
    > Apparently my property taxes can't even cover the cost of pavement and water mains, and yet we just built a new school, and are in the process of planning a $20 million library From the link: "If they operated on accrual accounting -- where you account for your long term liabilities -- instead of a cash basis -- where you don't -- they would have been bankrupt decades ago" The PF analogy to what you're saying is "yeah I'm dipping into savings to make mortgage payments and need to replace my roof next year and repair a major crack in the foundation. But they let me open a credit card and get a loan for a car, so what's the problem?"
kelnos 9y ago
> Well the only way to drive down price is to either increase supply or decrease demand. So make cities shitier and denser. That's just, like, your opinion, man. I prefer living in denser environments.
- zaroth 9y ago
  Shitier may be orthogonal to denser. But to your point, if denser is so much better, will increased density lead to lower prices, or just create more demand and keep prices the same?

majormajor 9y ago

Leave the coasts and you can find all sorts of multiple-million-people cities with far cheaper housing.

twobyfour 9y ago
Are you sure about that? There are only a couple cities in the US other than NYC and LA that have populations of 2M or more, and only 10 cities total with populations above a million in the last census.
- matthewbauer 9y ago
  If you count entire metro areas, there are at least 50.

ghaff 9y ago

In addition to less expensive cities, in many in-demand cities (SF not so much), it's actually possible to live in many nice suburbs/exurbs for a lot less money. That's often even where most of the tech jobs are. Boston/Cambridge? Expensive. But 45 mins or so out? Far less so. And you're closer to where most of the jobs are anyway. The urban cores may be a lifestyle choice. But it's a luxury choice in many cases. Not a place that someone actually has to live if they want to work.