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I live in Colorado. I think they are really blowing it by making the stores government owned. In Colorado, the stores are privately owned but very, very stric

by JPKab 9y ago

I live in Colorado. I think they are really blowing it by making the stores government owned. In Colorado, the stores are privately owned but very, very strictly regulated. Plants are tracked with an RFID all the way to the products derived from them, with a full chain of custody all the way to purchase. Only adults 21 and up can enter them, with a strict dual-check of identification (once to enter, and again when paying the cashier). The various shops actually end up being very different from each other in surprising ways. They all adhere to the regulations, but some are much larger and more corporate feeling, with lower prices, while others are boutique, specialize in higher quality product, and priced higher. The pace with which new products can be introduced is much faster due to potential producers not having to negotiate with a giant bureaucracy to get a product on the shelves.

macspoofing 9y ago
>I think they are really blowing it by making the stores government owned Considering that you can only buy alcohol through government owned stores, at least it's consistent.
vkou 9y ago
> I think they are really blowing it by making the stores government owned. Why? The largest chain of BC liquor stores is government-owned and operated. They do a pretty decent job of it.
- iamatworknow 9y ago
  Ontario does too. You can complain that the prices are a little high, but the LCBO stores I've been to have always been much cleaner and the staff more attentive, knowledgable, and personable than any privately owned store over the border in New York.
  - dugditches 9y ago
    How often do you talk to the staff at your liquor store? The convenience of buying at a corner store at a convenient time outweighs any of those things in my opinion(US, Quebec, some locations in Ont). With the dollar going back up it'll be better to simply cross the border to buy alcohol and gas again, instead of paying the ridiculous markup.(for context, a 24 of 355ml cans of 'budget' beer is nearly $50 CAD).
    - iamatworknow 9y ago
      Sounds like we treat alcohol differently. I don't drink to get drunk. If I want to try a new whisky or wine I'd like to be able to get some feedback on it, not an eye roll from a college-aged kid whose only insight is saying, "This one's probably better because it costs more".
      - drpgq 9y ago
        As far as I can tell LCBO store staff are hired based on nepotism, not whiskey knowledge.
  - wolco 9y ago
    LCBO employees will not be knowledgable with pot. Ever try to have a conversation about wine with an employee they are not hired with that knowledge background. The prices are very high compared to other areas that have freer access. Everything has a floor price that doesn't allow companies to sell for less than that amount.
- lpaone 9y ago
  The BC Liquor stores are not well run. In my experience, the service is slow, the people are not knowledgeable, and you will often have a huge lineup of people waiting at the only cashier that is open. The employees have 0 incentive to change this because they are protected by a powerful union. On top of this, as mentioned in other posts, we have some of the most expensive alcohol in the world. I have travelled to several countries and have yet to find a place that has more expensive alcohol than BC. I used to work beside a major liquor importer and after speaking with some of their employees, the general consensus in the industry is that the only people that benefit from this are the union employees that work at the government liquor stores and distribution centres. For everyone else: restaurants, consumers, independent store owners, etc. it is a negative. edit: grammar
  - JPKab 9y ago
    Agreed. The excuse that you will hear over and over again whenever anyone mentions the obvious inefficiencies is the moralistic bullshit where "We shouldn't make it cheap and easy for people to buy poison." I owe unions for many great things like weekends, safe working conditions, etc. They worked to codify these things into law. Once these things were accomplished, they slowly turned into impediments to competition. Private businesses whose unions went too far were driven out of business or hurt by companies whose unions cooperated with management (GM vs. Toyota). It's funny how the government monopolies (education, transportation, etc) are the most unionized industries left. The unions don't have to care about their customers, so they don't. Toyota has one of the most powerful unions on the planet (Japanese laws after WW2 made sure of that), and yet they don't squeeze out benefits at the expense of customers every chance they get.
  - vkou 9y ago
    Alcohol in BC is expensive because it is heavily taxed at every step, from production to distribution. BCL is not the cause of that problem. (As a cursory glance at the prices in non-BCL stores will confirm.)
- JPKab 9y ago
  "They do a pretty decent job of it." Compared to who? You have no frame of reference, because they have no competition. They could do a terrible job, and it wouldn't matter. They're a monopoly. They can do it as good or bad as they want, and you'll still go in and buy it.
  - markroseman 9y ago
    BC actually has both privately run and government run liquor stores.
criddell 9y ago
You're making a lot of assumptions about how they will run the stores. Other people have already mentioned how the government runs the alcohol stores and (IMHO) they do a pretty good job of it. I live in Texas now and when I go back to Ontario to visit my family, it does seem weird that I can't buy beer in a 7-11 or a grocery store or in a drive through shop (not sure these are a good idea). Being the sole seller also means that they can negotiate ruthlessly and drive prices down to maximize profit for the people of Ontario. I don't know if they will do that, but it sure helps.
- Para2016 9y ago
  Being the sole seller and negotiating "ruthlessly" leaves a lot of room for black market.
  - ontarioborn 9y ago
    Not anymore. Beer, cider, and wine are available in some supermarkets since 2016. see https://www.ontario.ca/page/beer-wine-cider-sales-grocery-stores https://www.ontario.ca/page/beer-wine-cider-sales-grocery-st... . But it's not like the USA, where cigarettes and beer are the first things one sees when walking into a 7-11.
    - deskamess 9y ago
      Who supplies them with beer? The LCBO (and the rules to prop them and The Beer Store) cannot be the basis for alcohol distribution and retail laws. LCBO gross margins are very high (49.8) compared to private outfits in Alberta (25%). Their employees also take a nice share in terms of benefits.
    - JPKab 9y ago
      FYI: The USA isn't a monolith. Walking into a 7-11 and seeing alcohol and cigarettes everywhere is dependent upon the state you are in. In Colorado, the only alcohol that can be purchased outside of a regulated liquor store is "Mormon" beer. This is beer whose alcohol content is less than 4%. In Virginia, liquor can only be purchased at stores run by the state government. Same goes for North Carolina and several other states. My experience with private liquor stores vs. the state run ones has been that the private ones were better stocked, had significantly better variety, and lower prices. However, that can vary depending on the state.
mstodd 9y ago
Both scenarios are bad in different ways, but Colorado is probably better. Best would be to have no regulation and especially no taxes.

by JPKab 9y ago

macspoofing 9y ago

>I think they are really blowing it by making the stores government owned Considering that you can only buy alcohol through government owned stores, at least it's consistent.

vkou 9y ago

> I think they are really blowing it by making the stores government owned. Why? The largest chain of BC liquor stores is government-owned and operated. They do a pretty decent job of it.

iamatworknow 9y ago
Ontario does too. You can complain that the prices are a little high, but the LCBO stores I've been to have always been much cleaner and the staff more attentive, knowledgable, and personable than any privately owned store over the border in New York.
- dugditches 9y ago
  How often do you talk to the staff at your liquor store? The convenience of buying at a corner store at a convenient time outweighs any of those things in my opinion(US, Quebec, some locations in Ont). With the dollar going back up it'll be better to simply cross the border to buy alcohol and gas again, instead of paying the ridiculous markup.(for context, a 24 of 355ml cans of 'budget' beer is nearly $50 CAD).
  - iamatworknow 9y ago
    Sounds like we treat alcohol differently. I don't drink to get drunk. If I want to try a new whisky or wine I'd like to be able to get some feedback on it, not an eye roll from a college-aged kid whose only insight is saying, "This one's probably better because it costs more".
    - drpgq 9y ago
      As far as I can tell LCBO store staff are hired based on nepotism, not whiskey knowledge.
- wolco 9y ago
  LCBO employees will not be knowledgable with pot. Ever try to have a conversation about wine with an employee they are not hired with that knowledge background. The prices are very high compared to other areas that have freer access. Everything has a floor price that doesn't allow companies to sell for less than that amount.
lpaone 9y ago
The BC Liquor stores are not well run. In my experience, the service is slow, the people are not knowledgeable, and you will often have a huge lineup of people waiting at the only cashier that is open. The employees have 0 incentive to change this because they are protected by a powerful union. On top of this, as mentioned in other posts, we have some of the most expensive alcohol in the world. I have travelled to several countries and have yet to find a place that has more expensive alcohol than BC. I used to work beside a major liquor importer and after speaking with some of their employees, the general consensus in the industry is that the only people that benefit from this are the union employees that work at the government liquor stores and distribution centres. For everyone else: restaurants, consumers, independent store owners, etc. it is a negative. edit: grammar
- JPKab 9y ago
  Agreed. The excuse that you will hear over and over again whenever anyone mentions the obvious inefficiencies is the moralistic bullshit where "We shouldn't make it cheap and easy for people to buy poison." I owe unions for many great things like weekends, safe working conditions, etc. They worked to codify these things into law. Once these things were accomplished, they slowly turned into impediments to competition. Private businesses whose unions went too far were driven out of business or hurt by companies whose unions cooperated with management (GM vs. Toyota). It's funny how the government monopolies (education, transportation, etc) are the most unionized industries left. The unions don't have to care about their customers, so they don't. Toyota has one of the most powerful unions on the planet (Japanese laws after WW2 made sure of that), and yet they don't squeeze out benefits at the expense of customers every chance they get.
- vkou 9y ago
  Alcohol in BC is expensive because it is heavily taxed at every step, from production to distribution. BCL is not the cause of that problem. (As a cursory glance at the prices in non-BCL stores will confirm.)
JPKab 9y ago
"They do a pretty decent job of it." Compared to who? You have no frame of reference, because they have no competition. They could do a terrible job, and it wouldn't matter. They're a monopoly. They can do it as good or bad as they want, and you'll still go in and buy it.
- markroseman 9y ago
  BC actually has both privately run and government run liquor stores.

criddell 9y ago

You're making a lot of assumptions about how they will run the stores. Other people have already mentioned how the government runs the alcohol stores and (IMHO) they do a pretty good job of it. I live in Texas now and when I go back to Ontario to visit my family, it does seem weird that I can't buy beer in a 7-11 or a grocery store or in a drive through shop (not sure these are a good idea). Being the sole seller also means that they can negotiate ruthlessly and drive prices down to maximize profit for the people of Ontario. I don't know if they will do that, but it sure helps.

Para2016 9y ago
Being the sole seller and negotiating "ruthlessly" leaves a lot of room for black market.
- ontarioborn 9y ago
  Not anymore. Beer, cider, and wine are available in some supermarkets since 2016. see https://www.ontario.ca/page/beer-wine-cider-sales-grocery-stores https://www.ontario.ca/page/beer-wine-cider-sales-grocery-st... . But it's not like the USA, where cigarettes and beer are the first things one sees when walking into a 7-11.
  - deskamess 9y ago
    Who supplies them with beer? The LCBO (and the rules to prop them and The Beer Store) cannot be the basis for alcohol distribution and retail laws. LCBO gross margins are very high (49.8) compared to private outfits in Alberta (25%). Their employees also take a nice share in terms of benefits.
  - JPKab 9y ago
    FYI: The USA isn't a monolith. Walking into a 7-11 and seeing alcohol and cigarettes everywhere is dependent upon the state you are in. In Colorado, the only alcohol that can be purchased outside of a regulated liquor store is "Mormon" beer. This is beer whose alcohol content is less than 4%. In Virginia, liquor can only be purchased at stores run by the state government. Same goes for North Carolina and several other states. My experience with private liquor stores vs. the state run ones has been that the private ones were better stocked, had significantly better variety, and lower prices. However, that can vary depending on the state.

mstodd 9y ago

Both scenarios are bad in different ways, but Colorado is probably better. Best would be to have no regulation and especially no taxes.