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Yeah, I would think so. So far, we've learned that they've exposed virtually everyone's data through their incompetence (thus exposing nearly every adult in the

Yeah, I would think so. So far, we've learned that they've exposed virtually everyone's data through their incompetence (thus exposing nearly every adult in the US to a high risk of identity fraud), sold stock to avoid personal financial losses before the news broke, and set up a scam site to trick people into giving up their right to sue. If this isn't criminal, then nothing is. If someone doesn't go to jail over this, why the hell shouldn't I just go out and commit fraud on a daily basis myself? It seems to be rewarded in our society...

nxsynonym 9y ago
>> why the hell shouldn't I just go out and commit fraud on a daily basis myself? Because corporations are protected, individuals are not. This is what happens when business(profit) takes precedence over human rights. There will be no repercussions for those responsible. No changes will be implemented. At best we'll get a public apology, but even that seems far-fetched.
- samstave 9y ago
  Should a sound approach, then, not be, to incorporate one-self at birth? What if A Person were to be born into a corporation and all transactions made by thhem be the corporations actions - if things go south, dissolve the company. (clearly this is simplistic, but you get the idea) I want to re-form myself into one of these corporations which has little retribution for actions. I shall pledge 10% of SamStave INC LLC to any attorney on the ~~~prowl~~~ case...
  - jdmichal 9y ago
    This is extremely difficult for a single person to do without piercing the veil. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil
  - astockwell 9y ago
    Indeed, this seems only logical. I honestly have this thought every time I make a large financial decision: Renting a house? Would be much easier to break the lease (Should I ever need to) if my surrogate 'corporation' with few assets were the leasee. Ditto with many medical situations/other large expenses. Plus, much better tax deductions!
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      > Would be much easier to break the lease (Should I ever need to) if my surrogate 'corporation' with few assets were the leasee You'll risk losing the assets. If the assets aren't substantial, it's unlikely any landlord will sign the lease with the entity without someone guaranteeing it.
    - fma 9y ago
      Well, this is why most people (including myself) put rental property under an LLC. I wouldn't let a tenant sign the lease as a corporation unless they were a legit corporation - you know, companies rent houses all the time for executives that relocate, etc. If the tenant breaks the lease, I'd sue the company and their assets. Real world example: I did a summer internship one year and the company rented a few houses for the interns. Myself and 2 college guys were in one. Landlord claimed damage on the air conditioner because it iced over due to not changing the filter...ended up getting money from the company.
  - HillaryBriss 9y ago
    a one person corporation isn't going to work. you'll need multiple people to serve as officers. that said, the strategy you describe is perhaps workable as a small, close-knit group of reciprocally trustworthy people who leave a sequence of bankrupt corporations in their wake. it could be a sort of financial lobster: a ring-of-trust which occasionally sheds its corporate shell and then immediately grows a new one.
    - StillBored 9y ago
      Consider "service" companies and asset sales. The company name/etc can be valued pretty low and sold to another organization while leaving all the unrealized liabilities in a company without any assets to pay for lawsuits... This seems pretty common with high value items (say pools/AC units/solar installers/etc) providing long warranties. 5 years in, the warranty is worthless because the original company is gone.
outoftacos 9y ago
I am still unsure as to how any of the credit bureaus exist legally at all, I never consented to having all my eggs in those three vulnerable baskets. Why is this my problem all of a sudden? I get that consumer protections in the US are not very strong, but this just seems like a shady cartel in cahoots with the banks/insurance companies. Please tell me I'm grossly misunderstanding something here.
- matthewmcg 9y ago
  It's a historical fluke. Credit bureaus trace back to agencies that compiled third-party reports on the creditworthiness of business persons. So long as the information collected is accurate (and not defamatory), this type of activity is protected under the first amendment. See the first segment of this episode of the Backstory podcast for a retelling of how these early agencies worked: http://backstoryradio.org/shows/keeping-tabs-2016/ http://backstoryradio.org/shows/keeping-tabs-2016/
  - cm2187 9y ago
    But then what happens if that information becomes inaccurate? (if your credit report shows credit events that aren't yours as a result of a fraud). Doesn't it become a form of defamation?
    - conanbatt 9y ago
      John oliver made a segment about this on how a person was denied a rental contract because one of these agencies said he was a terrorist. Like really, equifax saying "his score is pretty good, but he IS a terrorist". Sometimes correcting those things take months.
      - mjcl 9y ago
        It's ridiculous, but no property management company wants to risk a fine when the cost of checking the OFAC SDN list is so small. I'm not sure if we ever saw a decline due to the OFAC list, so I could easily see it would take a long time for something that unusual to be straightened out.
cm2187 9y ago
Crass incompetence at securing IT systems is not a criminal offense, no one is going to go to jail for that. But insider dealing is a criminal offense with a potentially heavy jail penalty.
whipoodle 9y ago
Yeah, if this didn't light a fire under some butts, nothing will. Remains to be seen whether it is just lip service, though. Our government doesn't like to prosecute people in the financial sector anymore.
cwkoss 9y ago
>why the hell shouldn't I just go out and commit fraud on a daily basis myself? Because you don't have enough wealth to be immune to the legal system.
Dowwie 9y ago
It is presented like a scam site, but without compelling users to agree to terms and conditions the site doesn't pass the basic contract law requirement of establishing a clear, unambiguous pathway to assent by a consumer to the terms.
fma 9y ago
I hope their executives get criminal charges. Credit Reporting Agency has a huge responsibility to keep this data safe. Lets charge with their CISO...you know, the one that graduated with a degree in music composition and just recently took down her LinkedIn profile. https://www.boardroominsiders.com/executive-profiles/1006308/Equifax,-Inc./Susan-Mauldin https://www.boardroominsiders.com/executive-profiles/1006308...

nxsynonym 9y ago

>> why the hell shouldn't I just go out and commit fraud on a daily basis myself? Because corporations are protected, individuals are not. This is what happens when business(profit) takes precedence over human rights. There will be no repercussions for those responsible. No changes will be implemented. At best we'll get a public apology, but even that seems far-fetched.

samstave 9y ago
Should a sound approach, then, not be, to incorporate one-self at birth? What if A Person were to be born into a corporation and all transactions made by thhem be the corporations actions - if things go south, dissolve the company. (clearly this is simplistic, but you get the idea) I want to re-form myself into one of these corporations which has little retribution for actions. I shall pledge 10% of SamStave INC LLC to any attorney on the ~~~prowl~~~ case...
- jdmichal 9y ago
  This is extremely difficult for a single person to do without piercing the veil. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil
- astockwell 9y ago
  Indeed, this seems only logical. I honestly have this thought every time I make a large financial decision: Renting a house? Would be much easier to break the lease (Should I ever need to) if my surrogate 'corporation' with few assets were the leasee. Ditto with many medical situations/other large expenses. Plus, much better tax deductions!
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > Would be much easier to break the lease (Should I ever need to) if my surrogate 'corporation' with few assets were the leasee You'll risk losing the assets. If the assets aren't substantial, it's unlikely any landlord will sign the lease with the entity without someone guaranteeing it.
  - fma 9y ago
    Well, this is why most people (including myself) put rental property under an LLC. I wouldn't let a tenant sign the lease as a corporation unless they were a legit corporation - you know, companies rent houses all the time for executives that relocate, etc. If the tenant breaks the lease, I'd sue the company and their assets. Real world example: I did a summer internship one year and the company rented a few houses for the interns. Myself and 2 college guys were in one. Landlord claimed damage on the air conditioner because it iced over due to not changing the filter...ended up getting money from the company.
- HillaryBriss 9y ago
  a one person corporation isn't going to work. you'll need multiple people to serve as officers. that said, the strategy you describe is perhaps workable as a small, close-knit group of reciprocally trustworthy people who leave a sequence of bankrupt corporations in their wake. it could be a sort of financial lobster: a ring-of-trust which occasionally sheds its corporate shell and then immediately grows a new one.
  - StillBored 9y ago
    Consider "service" companies and asset sales. The company name/etc can be valued pretty low and sold to another organization while leaving all the unrealized liabilities in a company without any assets to pay for lawsuits... This seems pretty common with high value items (say pools/AC units/solar installers/etc) providing long warranties. 5 years in, the warranty is worthless because the original company is gone.

outoftacos 9y ago

I am still unsure as to how any of the credit bureaus exist legally at all, I never consented to having all my eggs in those three vulnerable baskets. Why is this my problem all of a sudden? I get that consumer protections in the US are not very strong, but this just seems like a shady cartel in cahoots with the banks/insurance companies. Please tell me I'm grossly misunderstanding something here.

matthewmcg 9y ago
It's a historical fluke. Credit bureaus trace back to agencies that compiled third-party reports on the creditworthiness of business persons. So long as the information collected is accurate (and not defamatory), this type of activity is protected under the first amendment. See the first segment of this episode of the Backstory podcast for a retelling of how these early agencies worked: http://backstoryradio.org/shows/keeping-tabs-2016/ http://backstoryradio.org/shows/keeping-tabs-2016/
- cm2187 9y ago
  But then what happens if that information becomes inaccurate? (if your credit report shows credit events that aren't yours as a result of a fraud). Doesn't it become a form of defamation?
  - conanbatt 9y ago
    John oliver made a segment about this on how a person was denied a rental contract because one of these agencies said he was a terrorist. Like really, equifax saying "his score is pretty good, but he IS a terrorist". Sometimes correcting those things take months.
    - mjcl 9y ago
      It's ridiculous, but no property management company wants to risk a fine when the cost of checking the OFAC SDN list is so small. I'm not sure if we ever saw a decline due to the OFAC list, so I could easily see it would take a long time for something that unusual to be straightened out.

cm2187 9y ago

Crass incompetence at securing IT systems is not a criminal offense, no one is going to go to jail for that. But insider dealing is a criminal offense with a potentially heavy jail penalty.

whipoodle 9y ago

Yeah, if this didn't light a fire under some butts, nothing will. Remains to be seen whether it is just lip service, though. Our government doesn't like to prosecute people in the financial sector anymore.

cwkoss 9y ago

>why the hell shouldn't I just go out and commit fraud on a daily basis myself? Because you don't have enough wealth to be immune to the legal system.

Dowwie 9y ago

It is presented like a scam site, but without compelling users to agree to terms and conditions the site doesn't pass the basic contract law requirement of establishing a clear, unambiguous pathway to assent by a consumer to the terms.

fma 9y ago

I hope their executives get criminal charges. Credit Reporting Agency has a huge responsibility to keep this data safe. Lets charge with their CISO...you know, the one that graduated with a degree in music composition and just recently took down her LinkedIn profile. https://www.boardroominsiders.com/executive-profiles/1006308/Equifax,-Inc./Susan-Mauldin https://www.boardroominsiders.com/executive-profiles/1006308...