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This is interesting, thought I am having a hard time determining what make this different enough from Liberty Dollars [1] which made a splash in NC years ago. L

This is interesting, thought I am having a hard time determining what make this different enough from Liberty Dollars [1] which made a splash in NC years ago. Liberty Dollars were supposed to be worth the metals they were constructed of, so they were not pegged to any currency but their intended use was much the same (finding local businesses that would accept them). It seems odd that the purveyors of liberty dollars were arrested and other private currencies are allowed? The main complaint I saw was that they were too similar to "real" US currency, but the response seems exaggerated if thats all it really was. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_dollar_(private_currency) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_dollar_(private_curren...

rothbardrand 9y ago
It was exagerrated-- the "crime" of liberty dollars is that one of the distributors in NC was the ex-husband of an FBI agents sister, who was bitter about the situation and the FBI Agent decided he could make a terrorism case out of it and in the process steal a great deal of money via Asset Forfeiture-- which they did, including tens of thousands of Ron Paul Presidential Campaign Copper pieces (literally presidential campaign propaganda stolen by the FBI, in violation of the First Amendment and making all involved at the FBI felons under USC 18-242) not to mention something like $6M in Gold, Silver and Platinum pieces. Then they railroaded the Liberty Dollar defendants with fraudulent (in my opinion) jury instructions telling them that a silver piece 10 times the size of a dime that also has a picture of the statue of liberty's torch was "identical" to US Currency under the law... despite Liberty Dollar having letters from the Secret Service, federal reserve, etc, expressing the legal opinion that they were legal and the like. It's just a joke. This case is the one that proved to me that not only is government corrupt, and will steal money, but that it doesn't even follow its own laws, and a large portion of the population will cheer on this corruption (the issue when it got posted to HN was met with a lot of liberals cheering it on because liberals are in favor of the inflationist fiat monetary regime and think that "kooks making money out of silver" should somehow be prosecuted.)
- tanderson92 9y ago
  Fascinating! Thanks for the post, this is why I come to HN. Can you share some more sources from sources you consider reliable and not biased against Liberty dollars, so that I can read more?
- dj-wonk 9y ago
  Re: "This case is the one that proved to me..." I wonder if you are overgeneralizing here. Sure, there are cases of corruption involving the government. Did you intend to say something broader? Proving systemic or structural corruption is another thing. The question we should be asking, in my opinion, is not "Are all governments corrupt?" but rather "To what degree are particular people and particular institutions acting in corrupt ways." Fighting corruption is hard. We win some and we lose some. Our goal should be to win more often.
  - okreallywtf 9y ago
    Ironic, especially because the FBI is one of the primary law enforcement agencies investigating corruption [1] [2] [3]. It is almost like its a big organization that can't be summed up by a single statement. [1] http://www.postandcourier.com/politics/fbi-investigating-south-carolina-statehouse-corruption-could-expand-scope-of/article_954c1d06-6ca5-11e7-953d-9f2de89f849c.html http://www.postandcourier.com/politics/fbi-investigating-sou... [2] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/08/14/fbi-went-undercover-floridas-capital-and-fallout-could-huge/566090001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/08/14/fb... [3] http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article71567637.html http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article715...
- gertef 9y ago
  > met with a lot of liberals cheering it on because liberals are in favor of the inflationist fiat monetary regime and think that "kooks making money out of silver" should somehow be prosecuted citation? The only match I find is this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4696727 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4696727 which has 1 person making an offhand remark that the government should "crackdown" in this case. > rothbardrand Thank you for not hiding your biases.
notahacker 9y ago
Berkshares appear to be a glorified version of Amazon vouchers, exchangeable at participating stores for a fixed dollar value. Except you can probably buy more with Amazon vouchers, and they probably look more like dollars. On the other hand, the creator of Liberty Dollars campaigned for the abolition of the Fed whilst minting coins which were arguably similar to rarely-circulated commemorative dollar coins also called Liberty Dollars, and stamped a dollar value on them (which of course was in excess of the bullion value he was supposedly backing them with). Then when the US Mint issued warnings about "illegal coins" he took the suicidal decision to sue it to try to force it to withdraw them. Not a surprise that the government eventually found grounds to prosecute him under relatively obscure constitution-linked statutes covering exclusivity of coin mintage. (They also confiscated a lot of coins, most of which were eventually returned by courts. They're worth more now than when they were minted due to rarity value, looking pretty, and coin collectors and libertarians wanting them to show off) There's a cautionary tale for the crypto-world there, probably.

rothbardrand 9y ago

It was exagerrated-- the "crime" of liberty dollars is that one of the distributors in NC was the ex-husband of an FBI agents sister, who was bitter about the situation and the FBI Agent decided he could make a terrorism case out of it and in the process steal a great deal of money via Asset Forfeiture-- which they did, including tens of thousands of Ron Paul Presidential Campaign Copper pieces (literally presidential campaign propaganda stolen by the FBI, in violation of the First Amendment and making all involved at the FBI felons under USC 18-242) not to mention something like $6M in Gold, Silver and Platinum pieces. Then they railroaded the Liberty Dollar defendants with fraudulent (in my opinion) jury instructions telling them that a silver piece 10 times the size of a dime that also has a picture of the statue of liberty's torch was "identical" to US Currency under the law... despite Liberty Dollar having letters from the Secret Service, federal reserve, etc, expressing the legal opinion that they were legal and the like. It's just a joke. This case is the one that proved to me that not only is government corrupt, and will steal money, but that it doesn't even follow its own laws, and a large portion of the population will cheer on this corruption (the issue when it got posted to HN was met with a lot of liberals cheering it on because liberals are in favor of the inflationist fiat monetary regime and think that "kooks making money out of silver" should somehow be prosecuted.)

tanderson92 9y ago
Fascinating! Thanks for the post, this is why I come to HN. Can you share some more sources from sources you consider reliable and not biased against Liberty dollars, so that I can read more?
dj-wonk 9y ago
Re: "This case is the one that proved to me..." I wonder if you are overgeneralizing here. Sure, there are cases of corruption involving the government. Did you intend to say something broader? Proving systemic or structural corruption is another thing. The question we should be asking, in my opinion, is not "Are all governments corrupt?" but rather "To what degree are particular people and particular institutions acting in corrupt ways." Fighting corruption is hard. We win some and we lose some. Our goal should be to win more often.
- okreallywtf 9y ago
  Ironic, especially because the FBI is one of the primary law enforcement agencies investigating corruption [1] [2] [3]. It is almost like its a big organization that can't be summed up by a single statement. [1] http://www.postandcourier.com/politics/fbi-investigating-south-carolina-statehouse-corruption-could-expand-scope-of/article_954c1d06-6ca5-11e7-953d-9f2de89f849c.html http://www.postandcourier.com/politics/fbi-investigating-sou... [2] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/08/14/fbi-went-undercover-floridas-capital-and-fallout-could-huge/566090001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/08/14/fb... [3] http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article71567637.html http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article715...
gertef 9y ago
> met with a lot of liberals cheering it on because liberals are in favor of the inflationist fiat monetary regime and think that "kooks making money out of silver" should somehow be prosecuted citation? The only match I find is this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4696727 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4696727 which has 1 person making an offhand remark that the government should "crackdown" in this case. > rothbardrand Thank you for not hiding your biases.

notahacker 9y ago

Berkshares appear to be a glorified version of Amazon vouchers, exchangeable at participating stores for a fixed dollar value. Except you can probably buy more with Amazon vouchers, and they probably look more like dollars. On the other hand, the creator of Liberty Dollars campaigned for the abolition of the Fed whilst minting coins which were arguably similar to rarely-circulated commemorative dollar coins also called Liberty Dollars, and stamped a dollar value on them (which of course was in excess of the bullion value he was supposedly backing them with). Then when the US Mint issued warnings about "illegal coins" he took the suicidal decision to sue it to try to force it to withdraw them. Not a surprise that the government eventually found grounds to prosecute him under relatively obscure constitution-linked statutes covering exclusivity of coin mintage. (They also confiscated a lot of coins, most of which were eventually returned by courts. They're worth more now than when they were minted due to rarity value, looking pretty, and coin collectors and libertarians wanting them to show off) There's a cautionary tale for the crypto-world there, probably.