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Seems to me we got both pervasive state tracking capabilities AND poorly secured private systems too. And it's interesting to note that the use of an identifie

Seems to me we got both pervasive state tracking capabilities AND poorly secured private systems too. And it's interesting to note that the use of an identifier like the SSN spread not because its wide use was mandated (in fact, it spread despite being discouraged) but because it turns out organizations both public and private have the same incentives that drive them to want increased legibility throughout their systems through such an identifier. And most individuals also have a motive to want them to be able to positively identify and authenticate them (and negatively rule out imposters). It's almost like it'd make a good utility, though that's not the only possible solution. And the anti-govt bend is odd for at least two reasons: in a democratic republic with an elected representative government, it's pretty weird to treat the feds as a hostile occupying power. And two, even among those that do, their opposition often seems to have a cargo-cult focus on certain lines as tokens of liberty (firearms, national id, taxes) rather than frequent demonstrations of insight about the balance between having a useful federal apparatus and different ways that it can be (and is!) limited and checked.

masklinn 9y ago
Thank you for stating my thought likely more clearly than I would have.
JBlue42 9y ago
>in a democratic republic with an elected representative government, it's pretty weird to treat the feds as a hostile occupying power. But that's exactly our ethos and, I think, our major problem. We believe the gov't doesn't work, so fight hard to make sure it doesn't work, then sure enough, when you need it to do its job, it can't, and so it reinforces the negative loop. It's probably why we're at where we are now where a large percentage of the voting age population didn't vote on two candidates no one really wanted to run a gov't while ceding most of our representatives to the power of the corporate world, rather than the people actually being able to hold them accountable. But that gets even more off-topic. Sorry. And thanks for the very cogent statement vs my ramble.
banned1 9y ago
>>> And the anti-govt bend is odd for at least two reasons: in a democratic republic with an elected representative government, it's pretty weird to treat the feds as a hostile You don't explain why you think the sentiment "is weird". Maybe you have never been the target of repression so congratulations. Government officials with lists are potentially very effective ashes-creators: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1zxwka/what_kept_jews_from_blending_in_during_wwii/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/... Read: IBM and the Holocaust

masklinn 9y ago

Thank you for stating my thought likely more clearly than I would have.

JBlue42 9y ago

>in a democratic republic with an elected representative government, it's pretty weird to treat the feds as a hostile occupying power. But that's exactly our ethos and, I think, our major problem. We believe the gov't doesn't work, so fight hard to make sure it doesn't work, then sure enough, when you need it to do its job, it can't, and so it reinforces the negative loop. It's probably why we're at where we are now where a large percentage of the voting age population didn't vote on two candidates no one really wanted to run a gov't while ceding most of our representatives to the power of the corporate world, rather than the people actually being able to hold them accountable. But that gets even more off-topic. Sorry. And thanks for the very cogent statement vs my ramble.

banned1 9y ago

>>> And the anti-govt bend is odd for at least two reasons: in a democratic republic with an elected representative government, it's pretty weird to treat the feds as a hostile You don't explain why you think the sentiment "is weird". Maybe you have never been the target of repression so congratulations. Government officials with lists are potentially very effective ashes-creators: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1zxwka/what_kept_jews_from_blending_in_during_wwii/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/... Read: IBM and the Holocaust