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I completely agree. I did my undergrad and grad studies in philosophy, specifically focusing on contemporary and symbolic logic, before joining a six month boot

I completely agree. I did my undergrad and grad studies in philosophy, specifically focusing on contemporary and symbolic logic, before joining a six month bootcamp. Before the bootcamp, I had at least six months of development experience. Would I do it again? Absolutely, the bootcamp gave me discipline, a network, and a schedule to fill the gaps in my development experience. Did it teach me computer science? No way. We spent a week on it and hardly covered bubble sort, quick sort, and binary search. Although I have only touched the surface of computer science, I view it as an extension of my training in logic, and philosophy as an abstraction of pure mathematics. I know that if I want better jobs I will have to continue to learn algorithms, data structures, architecture, etc. Bootcamps can direct an analytical inclination, but rarely, if ever, create it. I am not at all sure that the conclusion is that bootcamps are ineffective. The issue is not with bootcamps as such, but with those who believe that the hard work is done by just showing up for lecture or doing the minimum in homework. I like to think that bootcamps are just an extension or tool to employ as an autodidact. There has always been a divide between those jobs which require a more rigorous foundation and jobs which need someone to bang out some semi-workable code for a website. Bootcamp grads are often under the wrong impression that they are qualified for the first type without some experience doing menial tasks.

scriptkiddy 9y ago
Just like most things in life, you get out of it what you put into it. > I like to think that bootcamps are just an extension or tool to employ as an autodidact. If you are an autodidact, a bootcamp isn't even required. The Internet is chock full of resources for learning programming that makes it extremely simple to learn on your own. I look at a bootcamp as paying for connections. A Bootcamp should help get you in touch with prospective employers or connect you with other developers with similar goals. Learning how to program is the easy part when compared to learning the soft skills required to be part of or build a successful company.
- AquinasCoder 9y ago
  That's true. I wouldn't necessarily agree that it's easy. One of the biggest difficulties when learning programming is just knowing where to start. Looking for mentors or resources isn't difficult. On the contrary, you are inundated with varying opinions. Making decisions about which technology to employ is an exercise in futility. A bootcamp helped me to not only learn technologies, but also how to make what at first seems like arbitrary choices. I credit this to my world-class instructor. It doesn't sound like everyone was so lucky. Without initial guidance and a firm commitment, we end up with questions like, "Should I learn Java or Javascript?" or "Can I learn Go in a week?" Is it possible to self teach completely? Yes. But you would need both discipline and analytical rigor as well as the humility to find help when you run into issues. I went into the bootcamp looking for both a mentor, which I found, and connections, which I also found.
  - scriptkiddy 9y ago
    > That's true. I wouldn't necessarily agree that it's easy. I assume you mean the self teaching part? Agreed. That's why I said simple. I should have been more clear. > Without initial guidance and a firm commitment, we end up with questions like, "Should I learn Java or Javascript?" or "Can I learn Go in a week?" Is it possible to self teach completely? Yes. But you would need both discipline and analytical rigor as well as the humility to find help when you run into issues. I went into the bootcamp looking for both a mentor, which I found, and connections, which I also found. I think this is a good way to look at it. I'm personally 100% self taught. I actually dropped out of college(financial issues), but I'm glad I did. I was able to learn so much more on my own. I can understand how a lot of people wouldn't be able to do what I did because they just don't see things the way I do I guess. For the type of people who require guidance from the more experienced, I think what you said above makes a lot of sense. I would, however, caution anyone who is an autodidact from going to a bootcamp simply on the premise of it being extremely expensive. If you have the ability to teach yourself these skills, there's really no good reason to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a bootcamp to learn at a pace dictated by your peers.

scriptkiddy 9y ago

Just like most things in life, you get out of it what you put into it. > I like to think that bootcamps are just an extension or tool to employ as an autodidact. If you are an autodidact, a bootcamp isn't even required. The Internet is chock full of resources for learning programming that makes it extremely simple to learn on your own. I look at a bootcamp as paying for connections. A Bootcamp should help get you in touch with prospective employers or connect you with other developers with similar goals. Learning how to program is the easy part when compared to learning the soft skills required to be part of or build a successful company.

AquinasCoder 9y ago
That's true. I wouldn't necessarily agree that it's easy. One of the biggest difficulties when learning programming is just knowing where to start. Looking for mentors or resources isn't difficult. On the contrary, you are inundated with varying opinions. Making decisions about which technology to employ is an exercise in futility. A bootcamp helped me to not only learn technologies, but also how to make what at first seems like arbitrary choices. I credit this to my world-class instructor. It doesn't sound like everyone was so lucky. Without initial guidance and a firm commitment, we end up with questions like, "Should I learn Java or Javascript?" or "Can I learn Go in a week?" Is it possible to self teach completely? Yes. But you would need both discipline and analytical rigor as well as the humility to find help when you run into issues. I went into the bootcamp looking for both a mentor, which I found, and connections, which I also found.
- scriptkiddy 9y ago
  > That's true. I wouldn't necessarily agree that it's easy. I assume you mean the self teaching part? Agreed. That's why I said simple. I should have been more clear. > Without initial guidance and a firm commitment, we end up with questions like, "Should I learn Java or Javascript?" or "Can I learn Go in a week?" Is it possible to self teach completely? Yes. But you would need both discipline and analytical rigor as well as the humility to find help when you run into issues. I went into the bootcamp looking for both a mentor, which I found, and connections, which I also found. I think this is a good way to look at it. I'm personally 100% self taught. I actually dropped out of college(financial issues), but I'm glad I did. I was able to learn so much more on my own. I can understand how a lot of people wouldn't be able to do what I did because they just don't see things the way I do I guess. For the type of people who require guidance from the more experienced, I think what you said above makes a lot of sense. I would, however, caution anyone who is an autodidact from going to a bootcamp simply on the premise of it being extremely expensive. If you have the ability to teach yourself these skills, there's really no good reason to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a bootcamp to learn at a pace dictated by your peers.