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With companies now coming up with exceptions to their free speech ideology, whats the technical solution? Seems the only place left for these unwanted groups, t

With companies now coming up with exceptions to their free speech ideology, whats the technical solution? Seems the only place left for these unwanted groups, the dark web of tor. The thing that interests me is technical issues of a site nobody wants to host. Deny them DNS, Deny them DDOS protection, Deny them hosting, whats left?

ceejayoz 9y ago
> Deny them DNS, Deny them DDOS protection, Deny them hosting, whats left? I mean, not being a neo-Nazi is an option...
- IronWolve 9y ago
  Thats a political and cultural solution, I said technical. They wouldn't need a technical solution if they are a group everyone approves of. I think their only option left is tor.
- mrguyorama 9y ago
  The fear that most Free Speech absolutists have is that tomorrow it will be: "I mean, not being a socialist|capitalist|religious individual is an option..." From an Ideals perspective, its a valid and valiant fear, but I don't understand the absolutist position. Legitimate verbal threats are still allowed under absolute free speech, but they obviously produce harm. Should we really allow anyone to threaten the life or livelihood of another human being without repercussion? Absolutism in the other direction is just as dystopian as well. Follow the exact line of populist opinion or else. So "Free speech on principal" people, where does it end? What ISN'T "Free Speech" to you?
  - problems 9y ago
    I think this has been answered many times over, even the most extreme free speech absolutists tend to agree that direct, specific threats are unacceptable. General, non-specific threats and expressing joy about violent acts however... opinions vary.
  - submersiveblue 9y ago
    Anything that doesn't directly call for violence. If you're presenting a position that others are free to evaluate on the merits, then free speech covers it. The point of allowing free speech is to be open to the truth. That doesn't mean that the truth is never ugly or in disharmony with fashionable opinion.
  - krapp 9y ago
    Cultural rejection of white supremacist and neo-nazi ideology isn't necessarily part of a slippery slope that will inevitably encompass all non-mainstream speech, rather it's a manifestation of free speech. Those beliefs had their trial in the marketplace of ideas and have been found to be culturally toxic, and intellectually and scientifically void. One can believe in free speech while also accepting that speech can have consequences, and that not all ideas have equal value, or necessarily deserve equal consideration.
problems 9y ago
They've been using onion domains to provide service while their clearnet site is unavailable - so the technical solutions do indeed exist. They're just harder to use. Of course, the other option is to find someone who does want to host you or start your own. They've done decently, bulletproof.al has been willing to provide them domains, bitmitigate is providing their DDoS protection, etc. As others in this thread have mentioned, there's a tendency for many entrepreneurial types to gravitate towards services that are very much hands-off, BitMitigate and Bulletproof made a name for themselves here and I'll certainly give them a shot if I'm hosting anything where users can post comments or I'm posting things that are remotely controversial. There's value in knowing your site won't go down even if the worst kind of controversy is stirred.
- IronWolve 9y ago
  I just went to Bulletproof.ai and on their front page they stated their registrar .ai AKEP told them they had to drop ds. So not that bulletproof.
  - problems 9y ago
    Yeah, and even with that extreme measure taken, Bulletproof found them a new domain on the .at TLD, check the whois for dailystomer.at

ceejayoz 9y ago

> Deny them DNS, Deny them DDOS protection, Deny them hosting, whats left? I mean, not being a neo-Nazi is an option...

IronWolve 9y ago
Thats a political and cultural solution, I said technical. They wouldn't need a technical solution if they are a group everyone approves of. I think their only option left is tor.
mrguyorama 9y ago
The fear that most Free Speech absolutists have is that tomorrow it will be: "I mean, not being a socialist|capitalist|religious individual is an option..." From an Ideals perspective, its a valid and valiant fear, but I don't understand the absolutist position. Legitimate verbal threats are still allowed under absolute free speech, but they obviously produce harm. Should we really allow anyone to threaten the life or livelihood of another human being without repercussion? Absolutism in the other direction is just as dystopian as well. Follow the exact line of populist opinion or else. So "Free speech on principal" people, where does it end? What ISN'T "Free Speech" to you?
- problems 9y ago
  I think this has been answered many times over, even the most extreme free speech absolutists tend to agree that direct, specific threats are unacceptable. General, non-specific threats and expressing joy about violent acts however... opinions vary.
- submersiveblue 9y ago
  Anything that doesn't directly call for violence. If you're presenting a position that others are free to evaluate on the merits, then free speech covers it. The point of allowing free speech is to be open to the truth. That doesn't mean that the truth is never ugly or in disharmony with fashionable opinion.
- krapp 9y ago
  Cultural rejection of white supremacist and neo-nazi ideology isn't necessarily part of a slippery slope that will inevitably encompass all non-mainstream speech, rather it's a manifestation of free speech. Those beliefs had their trial in the marketplace of ideas and have been found to be culturally toxic, and intellectually and scientifically void. One can believe in free speech while also accepting that speech can have consequences, and that not all ideas have equal value, or necessarily deserve equal consideration.

problems 9y ago

They've been using onion domains to provide service while their clearnet site is unavailable - so the technical solutions do indeed exist. They're just harder to use. Of course, the other option is to find someone who does want to host you or start your own. They've done decently, bulletproof.al has been willing to provide them domains, bitmitigate is providing their DDoS protection, etc. As others in this thread have mentioned, there's a tendency for many entrepreneurial types to gravitate towards services that are very much hands-off, BitMitigate and Bulletproof made a name for themselves here and I'll certainly give them a shot if I'm hosting anything where users can post comments or I'm posting things that are remotely controversial. There's value in knowing your site won't go down even if the worst kind of controversy is stirred.

IronWolve 9y ago
I just went to Bulletproof.ai and on their front page they stated their registrar .ai AKEP told them they had to drop ds. So not that bulletproof.
- problems 9y ago
  Yeah, and even with that extreme measure taken, Bulletproof found them a new domain on the .at TLD, check the whois for dailystomer.at