5 ms·

Java: Free at Last

96 points by voodooranger 9y ago

edzo 9y ago
maybe Oracle is finally gonna dump java and send it to a flundation altogether like other former sun projects. It failed to capitalize java I think
- needusername 9y ago
  Given the amount of money they are spending on Java SE and the way they are making decisions that seems unlikely.
tatersolid 9y ago
Or maybe, just maybe, Oracle finally realized Java has become a bloated piece of over-engineered enterprisey abandonware, the developer community has largely moved on, and it won't make them money going forward. Java is in maintenance mode. So they open source Java (for real this time) so someone else will take maintenance costs off their hands, and they can still sell their app suites which use Java.
- edzo 9y ago
  I could not have said it better bro
- nimchimpsky 9y ago
  Maintenance mode, that's ridiculous. It's just had one of the biggest releases in years, with 8. And 9 I understand it is going to be even bigger, with jigsaw - the goal being much smaller dependency. The Dev community is thriving, growing in fact. The latest release has made lots of people think Java is actually pretty good. The reference implementation is now the open jdk. So yadda yadda yadda with oracle.
  - lolive 9y ago
    I second your comment about Java 8. Lambdas, streams and code in interfaces are extremely useful.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago
    But it's not rapid release! If it's not releasing a new major version every two weeks it's clearly abandonware in maintenance mode! /s
- hdi 9y ago
  > the developer community has largely moved on How so? Moved on to what?
  - paulddraper 9y ago
    Serverless quantum computing containers. But you have to use the alpha beta double nightly for things to actually work.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  So funny that I cannot stop laughing. Enterprise customers use only two stacks when performance matters, Java or .NET, maybe with some additional C++ sauce, anything else are small contractors trying to get a piece of the pie from enterprise projects.
- tluyben2 9y ago
  What is your day job and for which company? Just curious as Java (and .NET) are everywhere I look so I wonder.
- zaptheimpaler 9y ago
  Java is a language, not some of the enterprise `AbstractFactoryProxyBuilder` horrors written in it. Theres plenty of good things written in Java, and theres plenty of trash written in <trendy new language>. Java the language is great - exceedingly well specified & documented, tested & optimized JVM platform, very simple & familiar with a lot of communal knowledge around it, great tooling around IDEs, runtime inspection that most languages can't match yet etc. Great might be a matter of taste, certainly not horrible and generally up to par with most other langs. Extreme generalizations like "X is bad & evil!!!!!" aren't really useful lenses to view software through.
  - s4vi0r 9y ago
    The JVM and tools + libraries built around it are great. Java itself is trash, IMO - I really don't see any reason you'd want to write Java instead of Kotlin. Saves you the hassle of boilerplate, introduces plenty missing features/improvements, runs on the JVM and on Android as well, and switching over is trivial.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      There is no JVM without Java, your precious Kotlin code needs Java to run on the JVM, and to make use of all those nice libraries written in Java. Even more so when Hotspot finally gets replaced by Graal, as long term plan on the Java's future roadmap. Likewise on Android, yes Kotlin now has official support, but AOSP Framework code is still Java and it will stay like that for the years to come.
    - zaptheimpaler 9y ago
      I would prefer writing Scala/Kotlin over Java. I still don't think that merits calling Java "trash". I am perfectly happy writing Java. Boilerplate & a few null-checks are very far from the truly horrible things about bad software - they are minor annoyances. This hyperbole about language is really not helpful. On the scale of things that make code good or not, separation of concerns & modularity, documentation etc. are 10-100 times more important than language.
    - peterashford 9y ago
- peterashford 9y ago
  It's the lead language on the Tiobe index by a huge margin. Your comment is laughable FUD.
fulafel 9y ago
What does it mean to "make Java binaries available directly from OpenJDK"? If the licensing restriction used to be just for Oracle-built binaries, anyone could just use normal distro provided OpenJDK binaries for kiosks and appliances, right?
- needusername 9y ago
  Yes, you could. But the distro has to build these binaries. The OpenJDK project offers no binaries, you can't download OpenJDK binaries from the OpenJDK website.

96 points by voodooranger 9y ago

edzo 9y ago

maybe Oracle is finally gonna dump java and send it to a flundation altogether like other former sun projects. It failed to capitalize java I think

needusername 9y ago
Given the amount of money they are spending on Java SE and the way they are making decisions that seems unlikely.

tatersolid 9y ago

Or maybe, just maybe, Oracle finally realized Java has become a bloated piece of over-engineered enterprisey abandonware, the developer community has largely moved on, and it won't make them money going forward. Java is in maintenance mode. So they open source Java (for real this time) so someone else will take maintenance costs off their hands, and they can still sell their app suites which use Java.

edzo 9y ago
I could not have said it better bro
nimchimpsky 9y ago
Maintenance mode, that's ridiculous. It's just had one of the biggest releases in years, with 8. And 9 I understand it is going to be even bigger, with jigsaw - the goal being much smaller dependency. The Dev community is thriving, growing in fact. The latest release has made lots of people think Java is actually pretty good. The reference implementation is now the open jdk. So yadda yadda yadda with oracle.
- lolive 9y ago
  I second your comment about Java 8. Lambdas, streams and code in interfaces are extremely useful.
- SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago
  But it's not rapid release! If it's not releasing a new major version every two weeks it's clearly abandonware in maintenance mode! /s
hdi 9y ago
> the developer community has largely moved on How so? Moved on to what?
- paulddraper 9y ago
  Serverless quantum computing containers. But you have to use the alpha beta double nightly for things to actually work.
pjmlp 9y ago
So funny that I cannot stop laughing. Enterprise customers use only two stacks when performance matters, Java or .NET, maybe with some additional C++ sauce, anything else are small contractors trying to get a piece of the pie from enterprise projects.
tluyben2 9y ago
What is your day job and for which company? Just curious as Java (and .NET) are everywhere I look so I wonder.
zaptheimpaler 9y ago
Java is a language, not some of the enterprise `AbstractFactoryProxyBuilder` horrors written in it. Theres plenty of good things written in Java, and theres plenty of trash written in <trendy new language>. Java the language is great - exceedingly well specified & documented, tested & optimized JVM platform, very simple & familiar with a lot of communal knowledge around it, great tooling around IDEs, runtime inspection that most languages can't match yet etc. Great might be a matter of taste, certainly not horrible and generally up to par with most other langs. Extreme generalizations like "X is bad & evil!!!!!" aren't really useful lenses to view software through.
- s4vi0r 9y ago
  The JVM and tools + libraries built around it are great. Java itself is trash, IMO - I really don't see any reason you'd want to write Java instead of Kotlin. Saves you the hassle of boilerplate, introduces plenty missing features/improvements, runs on the JVM and on Android as well, and switching over is trivial.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    There is no JVM without Java, your precious Kotlin code needs Java to run on the JVM, and to make use of all those nice libraries written in Java. Even more so when Hotspot finally gets replaced by Graal, as long term plan on the Java's future roadmap. Likewise on Android, yes Kotlin now has official support, but AOSP Framework code is still Java and it will stay like that for the years to come.
  - zaptheimpaler 9y ago
    I would prefer writing Scala/Kotlin over Java. I still don't think that merits calling Java "trash". I am perfectly happy writing Java. Boilerplate & a few null-checks are very far from the truly horrible things about bad software - they are minor annoyances. This hyperbole about language is really not helpful. On the scale of things that make code good or not, separation of concerns & modularity, documentation etc. are 10-100 times more important than language.
  - peterashford 9y ago
peterashford 9y ago
It's the lead language on the Tiobe index by a huge margin. Your comment is laughable FUD.

fulafel 9y ago

What does it mean to "make Java binaries available directly from OpenJDK"? If the licensing restriction used to be just for Oracle-built binaries, anyone could just use normal distro provided OpenJDK binaries for kiosks and appliances, right?

needusername 9y ago
Yes, you could. But the distro has to build these binaries. The OpenJDK project offers no binaries, you can't download OpenJDK binaries from the OpenJDK website.