5 ms·

> "Airlines are allowed to oversell flights. When they do, they typically offer travel vouchers to encourage some people to give up their seats. They can also b

by alehul 9y ago

> "Airlines are allowed to oversell flights. When they do, they typically offer travel vouchers to encourage some people to give up their seats. They can also bump passengers - force them off the flight - but there are rules and necessary compensation." > "Dao, who lost teeth and suffered a broken nose and a concussion." I don't understand why we still allow overbooking when we regulate so much else in the flight industry. Also, even with allowed overbooking, why is it not the responsibility of the airline — who initially offered travel vouchers per policy — to continually offer more until the offer is accepted? Why are they allowed to determine 'x' amount as justifiable, then forcefully remove people when the passengers disagree? Paying generously should be a penalty of overbooking, at the least.

subway 9y ago
begin hand waving efficiency, lower fares, it's what the market wants end hand waving
waqf 9y ago
This was actually not an "overbooking" incident in the usual sense. United wanted the seats to move some of their own crew members (reference: http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/real-reason-man-dragged-off-united-flight-stop-happening/ http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/real-reas...).
- aaronchall 9y ago
  This is my understanding as well. The "overbooking" terminology is specious PR spin.
jdmichal 9y ago
> Also, even with allowed overbooking, why is it not the responsibility of the airline — who initially offered travel vouchers per policy — to continually offer more until the offer is accepted? Why are they allowed to determine 'x' amount as justifiable, then forcefully remove people when the passengers disagree? Paying generously should be a penalty of overbooking, at the least. It's actually the federal government that has determined what is appropriate for forced bumping from a flight. * No compensation for less than one hour delay. * 200% reward in cash for one to two hours delay. * 400% reward in cash for two or more hours delay. * This is all in addition to retaining your original ticket, which the airlines must continue to honor with a new flight. Or you can request a refund, though I'm unsure how that interacts with the rewards. The vouchers are the airlines attempts to get volunteers for cheaper than the federally-mandated compensation. https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights#Overbooking https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights#Overbo...
- conductr 9y ago
  I thought there was something about how none of this applies once you've taken your seat. If you're seated, you can refuse to give up your seat (unless you're being removed because of your own behavior).
  - rhino369 9y ago
    Some argued the contract of carriage only allows the airline to deny boarding, not to remove you after boarding. But that is a pretty narrow interpretation of the language. Plus, the airline can throw you off the plane for any reason at all, even if doing so is a breach of contract. There is no explicit law that says you can't be asked to leave a plane you already boarded.
    - phonon 9y ago
      Incorrect. United has a contract of carriage that explicitly enumerates the circumstances in which they can remove you from the aircraft.[1] Overbooking is not one of those reasons, and there is no "catch-all". [1] https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec21 https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriag...
      - rhino369 9y ago
        They can still remove you in breach of the contract. You could collect some damages, but they are allowed to do it.
        phonon 9y ago
        A. You make it sound as if a common carrier violating its own contract of carriage is no big deal. Depending on how widespread and severe the violations are, there could be considerable repercussions from the DOT/FAA, in addition to civil damages. B. It's no simple thing to forcibly remove someone. This is not "being asked to leave a plane you already boarded." but dragging someone out violently. If the airline is the one breaching their contract, why would the police assist in that breach? You can read a bit more-- https://www.natlawreview.com/article/united-airlines-dr-dao-and-contract-carriage https://www.natlawreview.com/article/united-airlines-dr-dao-... https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43078.pdf https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43078.pdf
nsxwolf 9y ago
You'd have a lot more empty seats if you didn't allow overbooking. That's not good for anybody, or the environment.
hueving 9y ago
>I don't understand why we still allow overbooking when we regulate so much else in the flight industry. Because it's a good thing that results in a much more optimal outcome in the majority of cases. Fuller flights and travelers with flexible schedules get vouchers for other flights.

by alehul 9y ago

subway 9y ago

begin hand waving efficiency, lower fares, it's what the market wants end hand waving

waqf 9y ago

This was actually not an "overbooking" incident in the usual sense. United wanted the seats to move some of their own crew members (reference: http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/real-reason-man-dragged-off-united-flight-stop-happening/ http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/real-reas...).

aaronchall 9y ago
This is my understanding as well. The "overbooking" terminology is specious PR spin.

jdmichal 9y ago

> Also, even with allowed overbooking, why is it not the responsibility of the airline — who initially offered travel vouchers per policy — to continually offer more until the offer is accepted? Why are they allowed to determine 'x' amount as justifiable, then forcefully remove people when the passengers disagree? Paying generously should be a penalty of overbooking, at the least. It's actually the federal government that has determined what is appropriate for forced bumping from a flight. * No compensation for less than one hour delay. * 200% reward in cash for one to two hours delay. * 400% reward in cash for two or more hours delay. * This is all in addition to retaining your original ticket, which the airlines must continue to honor with a new flight. Or you can request a refund, though I'm unsure how that interacts with the rewards. The vouchers are the airlines attempts to get volunteers for cheaper than the federally-mandated compensation. https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights#Overbooking https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights#Overbo...

conductr 9y ago
I thought there was something about how none of this applies once you've taken your seat. If you're seated, you can refuse to give up your seat (unless you're being removed because of your own behavior).
- rhino369 9y ago
  Some argued the contract of carriage only allows the airline to deny boarding, not to remove you after boarding. But that is a pretty narrow interpretation of the language. Plus, the airline can throw you off the plane for any reason at all, even if doing so is a breach of contract. There is no explicit law that says you can't be asked to leave a plane you already boarded.
  - phonon 9y ago
    Incorrect. United has a contract of carriage that explicitly enumerates the circumstances in which they can remove you from the aircraft.[1] Overbooking is not one of those reasons, and there is no "catch-all". [1] https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec21 https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriag...
    - rhino369 9y ago
      They can still remove you in breach of the contract. You could collect some damages, but they are allowed to do it.
      - phonon 9y ago
        A. You make it sound as if a common carrier violating its own contract of carriage is no big deal. Depending on how widespread and severe the violations are, there could be considerable repercussions from the DOT/FAA, in addition to civil damages. B. It's no simple thing to forcibly remove someone. This is not "being asked to leave a plane you already boarded." but dragging someone out violently. If the airline is the one breaching their contract, why would the police assist in that breach? You can read a bit more-- https://www.natlawreview.com/article/united-airlines-dr-dao-and-contract-carriage https://www.natlawreview.com/article/united-airlines-dr-dao-... https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43078.pdf https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43078.pdf

nsxwolf 9y ago

You'd have a lot more empty seats if you didn't allow overbooking. That's not good for anybody, or the environment.

hueving 9y ago

>I don't understand why we still allow overbooking when we regulate so much else in the flight industry. Because it's a good thing that results in a much more optimal outcome in the majority of cases. Fuller flights and travelers with flexible schedules get vouchers for other flights.