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More evidence supporting the claim that, as a society, we have completely lost the capability to have a conversation on anything. Everything is polarizing and

More evidence supporting the claim that, as a society, we have completely lost the capability to have a conversation on anything. Everything is polarizing and everyone feels the need to pick (and defend) a side.

thrill 9y ago
Well, in reference to the subject of this particular movie, one "side" of the "conversation" is frequently in the news as wanting to put nonbelievers of their view of the issue in prison. That might tend to create some animosity.
- city41 9y ago
  Can you give some examples? I have never heard of this.
  - kbutler 9y ago
    https://www.google.com/search?q=climate+change+deniers+%28death+penalty%2Cjail%29 https://www.google.com/search?q=climate+change+deniers+%28de... Death penalty, tried for crimes against humanity, jail, fines for disagreeing... I don't think any of these are mainstream ideas yet, but there was failed bill in the California legislature to have the AG sue those who "spread disinformation" on climate change. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/2/calif-bill-prosecutes-climate-change-skeptics/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/2/calif-bill-pr... Can't reply to responder below - but I am not your research assistant. The parent asked a question, I showed where they could find answers. The google search above links to a professor speculating on death penalty for skeptics, and others speculating on trying them for crimes against humanity. For spokesmen, Al Gore didn't mention jail, but said we should "punish" and politicians should "pay the price" for differing perceptions (and note that even climate change advocates who are not extremists get branded as "deniers"). http://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/originals/chi-sxsw-al-gore-penny-pritzker-bsi-20150313-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/originals/chi-sxsw-al-... """ Former Vice President Al Gore on Friday called on SXSW attendees to punish climate-change deniers, saying politicians should pay a price for rejecting “accepted science.” ... we need to put a price on denial in politics """
    - SippinLean 9y ago
      That is a google search. Do you have evidence that people in such a prominent position as to speak for their "side" as a whole are "frequently in the news" wanting to put people in prison? Much more easily found are examples of the other "side" making such (climate-change-denying) claims. The one example provided was a proposal that would allow someone to sue another party, not "put nonbelievers in prison".
    - SippinLean 9y ago
      Re: your edit: >but I am not your research assistant Correct. Also correct: you need to cite specific examples to back up the claim, which you have not done. "A professor speculating" and the nebulous "others" are, again, not in such a prominent position as to speak for their "side" as a whole. >For spokesmen, Al Gore didn't mention jail Correct, which would make this not an example of "wanting to put nonbelievers of their view of the issue in prison," OP's only claim.
      - kbutler 9y ago
        >>but I am not your research assistant >Correct. Glad we cleared that up. >Also correct: you need to cite specific examples to back up the claim, which you have not done. Hmm. See above. I chose to contribute to the conversation by pointing to examples of behavior that poison the discussion, in the spirit of thrill's comment. I personally thought "death penalty" and "war crimes" were stronger examples than just "prison". I did not attempt nor do I need to prove the ancestor literally correct, but just for fun, here are a couple of links that do - you'll have to decide if Bill Nye and Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. meet your criteria as "prominent" (which was not in thrill's post - just that they are in the news). Rfk, jr. http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/23/robert-kennedy-jr-we-need-laws-punish-global-warmi/ http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/23/robert-kennedy... Koch brothers should be in prison in the Hague Bill Nye http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/14/bill-nye-open-criminal-charges-jail-time-climate-c/ http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/14/bill-nye-open-... compares it to jailing guys from Enron Examples, plural, specific, people in the news claiming their opponents should be imprisoned. Good enough for me.
Spivak 9y ago
If we didn't tie the acceptance of statements which can be supported or dismissed by evidence * climate change is a measurable effect * humans have a non-trivial impact on climate change with and particular blame or course of action * The coal industry is *bad* for contributing climate change. * We must immediately reduce our consumption of meat and oil. then I think we would have a lot people suddenly be in agreement about the facts.
- Steko 9y ago
  Trying to shift the blame for disagreement to the people who are on the right side of the facts is mistaken. People are deluded on the facts because of a massive decades long propaganda effort. The left moving to the center hasn't brought the right to the center on any issue, it's just allowed the right to get even crazier.

thrill 9y ago

Well, in reference to the subject of this particular movie, one "side" of the "conversation" is frequently in the news as wanting to put nonbelievers of their view of the issue in prison. That might tend to create some animosity.

city41 9y ago
Can you give some examples? I have never heard of this.
- kbutler 9y ago
  https://www.google.com/search?q=climate+change+deniers+%28death+penalty%2Cjail%29 https://www.google.com/search?q=climate+change+deniers+%28de... Death penalty, tried for crimes against humanity, jail, fines for disagreeing... I don't think any of these are mainstream ideas yet, but there was failed bill in the California legislature to have the AG sue those who "spread disinformation" on climate change. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/2/calif-bill-prosecutes-climate-change-skeptics/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/2/calif-bill-pr... Can't reply to responder below - but I am not your research assistant. The parent asked a question, I showed where they could find answers. The google search above links to a professor speculating on death penalty for skeptics, and others speculating on trying them for crimes against humanity. For spokesmen, Al Gore didn't mention jail, but said we should "punish" and politicians should "pay the price" for differing perceptions (and note that even climate change advocates who are not extremists get branded as "deniers"). http://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/originals/chi-sxsw-al-gore-penny-pritzker-bsi-20150313-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/originals/chi-sxsw-al-... """ Former Vice President Al Gore on Friday called on SXSW attendees to punish climate-change deniers, saying politicians should pay a price for rejecting “accepted science.” ... we need to put a price on denial in politics """
  - SippinLean 9y ago
    That is a google search. Do you have evidence that people in such a prominent position as to speak for their "side" as a whole are "frequently in the news" wanting to put people in prison? Much more easily found are examples of the other "side" making such (climate-change-denying) claims. The one example provided was a proposal that would allow someone to sue another party, not "put nonbelievers in prison".
  - SippinLean 9y ago
    Re: your edit: >but I am not your research assistant Correct. Also correct: you need to cite specific examples to back up the claim, which you have not done. "A professor speculating" and the nebulous "others" are, again, not in such a prominent position as to speak for their "side" as a whole. >For spokesmen, Al Gore didn't mention jail Correct, which would make this not an example of "wanting to put nonbelievers of their view of the issue in prison," OP's only claim.
    - kbutler 9y ago
      >>but I am not your research assistant >Correct. Glad we cleared that up. >Also correct: you need to cite specific examples to back up the claim, which you have not done. Hmm. See above. I chose to contribute to the conversation by pointing to examples of behavior that poison the discussion, in the spirit of thrill's comment. I personally thought "death penalty" and "war crimes" were stronger examples than just "prison". I did not attempt nor do I need to prove the ancestor literally correct, but just for fun, here are a couple of links that do - you'll have to decide if Bill Nye and Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. meet your criteria as "prominent" (which was not in thrill's post - just that they are in the news). Rfk, jr. http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/23/robert-kennedy-jr-we-need-laws-punish-global-warmi/ http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/23/robert-kennedy... Koch brothers should be in prison in the Hague Bill Nye http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/14/bill-nye-open-criminal-charges-jail-time-climate-c/ http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/14/bill-nye-open-... compares it to jailing guys from Enron Examples, plural, specific, people in the news claiming their opponents should be imprisoned. Good enough for me.

Spivak 9y ago

If we didn't tie the acceptance of statements which can be supported or dismissed by evidence * climate change is a measurable effect * humans have a non-trivial impact on climate change with and particular blame or course of action * The coal industry is *bad* for contributing climate change. * We must immediately reduce our consumption of meat and oil. then I think we would have a lot people suddenly be in agreement about the facts.

Steko 9y ago
Trying to shift the blame for disagreement to the people who are on the right side of the facts is mistaken. People are deluded on the facts because of a massive decades long propaganda effort. The left moving to the center hasn't brought the right to the center on any issue, it's just allowed the right to get even crazier.