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I think it would be more constructive to base environmentalism on rational arguments (of which there are many), rather than chemically flipping some switches in

I think it would be more constructive to base environmentalism on rational arguments (of which there are many), rather than chemically flipping some switches in the brain to make everyone love nature.

sova 9y ago
Most people understand the world emotionally. Although rational and logical analysis can lead one to the same understanding, the freedom of mind is a hard sell, whereas "here try this snack" is far more accessible for most. Expedient means come in many forms and fashions. In a world of so many narratives and rationalities, being able to open up somebody's emotional understanding to greater senses and truths is something absolutely wonderful.
- kaffeemitsahne 9y ago
  Sounds rather like brainwashing honestly. Even if it's for a good cause I'm not entirely comfortable with that.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - sova 9y ago
    There's no guarantee of results, it's just another way to introduce people to non-ordinary states of consciousness/mind. Certainly don't ever do it without someone's consent, and don't impose some sort of belief structure over what's personally and independently cognizable and knowable. I suppose I have a hard time saying that un-erasable insights are "brainwashing" because that's like saying traveling abroad is like being a traitor. Really, it makes you a stronger citizen, because then you have terms and modes with which to compare, and you also have a newfound wealth of treasure and discovery to help accelerate your own nation, to bring the simile full circle.
colecut 9y ago
There may be people who aren't concerned with rational arguments / are close minded / fixed in their own beliefs, who then have an experience that rattles their perception, and shows them that their perception is only that - perception. And how loose/fragile perception is. And often they will pause and question things a little more, think for themselves a little more. And this is usually for the better and will open them up to more rational points. That said, despite my fondness for these experiences, I do personally know 2 people who experienced prolonged (1-2 weeks) psychotic episodes after taking LSD. So there is more risk associated than many believe or want to accept. I haven't heard of this happening with mushrooms.
- 3pt14159 9y ago
  Could you expand what that was like for them? I've always heard that LSD was one of the safest drugs out there, aside from false beliefs like thinking you can fly.
  - dsnuh 9y ago
    I hope GP doesn't take this the wrong way, as I am sure their friends may have had truly terrible experiences. It's not a myth, but it is also something that has been overly demonized. No, LSD doesn't make you think you can fly. That's after school special propaganda. That said, don't accept third hand reports of psychedelic experiences. If you want to read first hand accounts, I recommend browsing the trip reports at https://www.erowid.org/ https://www.erowid.org/. Or better yet, just give it a try and see for yourself. :)
    - colecut 9y ago
      I am not at all trying to demonize it. I guess I stated it in the way I did because, most enthusiasts start thinking that LSD is "the answer" or "the cure" etc etc.. and get super 'bout it and consequently tend to reject the idea of any real negative consequences, because the experience really is truly amazing and even the day after can be even more amazing, in stark contrast of the 'hangover'. So I just wanted to mention in spite of this, weird things do happen in very rare cases, and this could even be due to the fact that it's illegal and thus not manufactured with consistent/optimum purity. Both of my friends were quite experienced with dozens of enjoyable trips under their belt.
meri_dian 9y ago
Agreed. We should preserve the natural world if there are good reasons for doing so. I believe there are, not only for self preservation of the human species, but because of the joy so many feel being immersed in nature. Appeals to reason don't force us to bow to economic imperatives. Wanting to preserve nature for the joy it brings us is perfectly rational and reasonable.
ux4 9y ago
I think there are strong emotional anchors to environmentalism and all other political beliefs. You could provide a non-environmentalist with all the facts and rational arguments of why environmentalism is important, but you may never change their mind because they grew up a certain way and their belief on environmentalism is emotionally embedded. However, if they experienced the issue first hand or encountered some sort of emotionally-provoking insight (such as a psychedelic trip), they are more likely to reevaluate and change their core beliefs.

sova 9y ago

Most people understand the world emotionally. Although rational and logical analysis can lead one to the same understanding, the freedom of mind is a hard sell, whereas "here try this snack" is far more accessible for most. Expedient means come in many forms and fashions. In a world of so many narratives and rationalities, being able to open up somebody's emotional understanding to greater senses and truths is something absolutely wonderful.

kaffeemitsahne 9y ago
Sounds rather like brainwashing honestly. Even if it's for a good cause I'm not entirely comfortable with that.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- sova 9y ago
  There's no guarantee of results, it's just another way to introduce people to non-ordinary states of consciousness/mind. Certainly don't ever do it without someone's consent, and don't impose some sort of belief structure over what's personally and independently cognizable and knowable. I suppose I have a hard time saying that un-erasable insights are "brainwashing" because that's like saying traveling abroad is like being a traitor. Really, it makes you a stronger citizen, because then you have terms and modes with which to compare, and you also have a newfound wealth of treasure and discovery to help accelerate your own nation, to bring the simile full circle.

colecut 9y ago

There may be people who aren't concerned with rational arguments / are close minded / fixed in their own beliefs, who then have an experience that rattles their perception, and shows them that their perception is only that - perception. And how loose/fragile perception is. And often they will pause and question things a little more, think for themselves a little more. And this is usually for the better and will open them up to more rational points. That said, despite my fondness for these experiences, I do personally know 2 people who experienced prolonged (1-2 weeks) psychotic episodes after taking LSD. So there is more risk associated than many believe or want to accept. I haven't heard of this happening with mushrooms.

3pt14159 9y ago
Could you expand what that was like for them? I've always heard that LSD was one of the safest drugs out there, aside from false beliefs like thinking you can fly.
- dsnuh 9y ago
  I hope GP doesn't take this the wrong way, as I am sure their friends may have had truly terrible experiences. It's not a myth, but it is also something that has been overly demonized. No, LSD doesn't make you think you can fly. That's after school special propaganda. That said, don't accept third hand reports of psychedelic experiences. If you want to read first hand accounts, I recommend browsing the trip reports at https://www.erowid.org/ https://www.erowid.org/. Or better yet, just give it a try and see for yourself. :)
  - colecut 9y ago
    I am not at all trying to demonize it. I guess I stated it in the way I did because, most enthusiasts start thinking that LSD is "the answer" or "the cure" etc etc.. and get super 'bout it and consequently tend to reject the idea of any real negative consequences, because the experience really is truly amazing and even the day after can be even more amazing, in stark contrast of the 'hangover'. So I just wanted to mention in spite of this, weird things do happen in very rare cases, and this could even be due to the fact that it's illegal and thus not manufactured with consistent/optimum purity. Both of my friends were quite experienced with dozens of enjoyable trips under their belt.

meri_dian 9y ago

Agreed. We should preserve the natural world if there are good reasons for doing so. I believe there are, not only for self preservation of the human species, but because of the joy so many feel being immersed in nature. Appeals to reason don't force us to bow to economic imperatives. Wanting to preserve nature for the joy it brings us is perfectly rational and reasonable.

ux4 9y ago

I think there are strong emotional anchors to environmentalism and all other political beliefs. You could provide a non-environmentalist with all the facts and rational arguments of why environmentalism is important, but you may never change their mind because they grew up a certain way and their belief on environmentalism is emotionally embedded. However, if they experienced the issue first hand or encountered some sort of emotionally-provoking insight (such as a psychedelic trip), they are more likely to reevaluate and change their core beliefs.