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> How about: making the phones waterproof with one less difficult to tackle port, less width/height needed for the new port hence thinner phones, envisioning a

by croon 9y ago

> How about: making the phones waterproof with one less difficult to tackle port, less width/height needed for the new port hence thinner phones, envisioning a wireless future (what with AirPods and co). If some guy (he's obviously talented, but still a guy) can fit one inside an already manufactured iPhone 7, the company designing the phone obviously would have no problem fitting it in the dimensions it holds. > The "best hypothesis"? That's the classic "lock-in" conspiracy theory. And Apple makes pennies on the headphones compared to what they make from the iPhones (and what they could lose in iPhone sales if the removal of the port proved unpopular) for that to be any great motive. > The fact that there are pushing AirPods (which don't care for the jack at all) and that Apple gives a free conversion to mini-jack with each new iPhone, means that the theory "it's all about selling headphones/licenses for lighting headphones" is moot. Doesn't the fact that Apple being the company selling the AirPods (for a mighty hefty fee I might add) at least suggest the opposite of "moot", since they're making a lot of money on new headphones by removing the jack? You state and agree with all the factors needed to draw the conclusions of the "conspiracy theory" (or what I'd call market sense), yet you arrive at the opposite one, why is that?

csydas 9y ago
> since they're making a lot of money on new headphones by removing the jack Well, such a condition would rely on this being true and accurate. I'm not really confident there's any data that suggests how people are listening to music on their iPhone 7s at the moment, and really nothing to draw a conclusion from except "anecdata". The simpler explanation in my mind is that Apple wanted a thinner phone, and they did what they needed. There was an article a few days ago from Xiaomi's Indian Product Manager who commented on the removal of the Headphone Jack on one of the Mi Phone releases. His insight was that despite what people say ("I don't care about thickness"), their surveys and testing overwhelmingly showed that consumers have a preference towards thinner phones. With this in mind, to me it seems more reasonable that Apple just decided to ditch the jack less they be caught making the fat phone. Your personal preferences may differ, but I think the more reasonable and sustainable conclusion is simply that Apple is chasing the thin phone.
- dTal 9y ago
  The iPhone 6s and the iPhone 7 are exactly the same thickness. There is even a big gap where the headphone jack was, that the author used to retrofit his own. The decision to remove it was not driven by here-and-now technical requirements.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    That's one consideration. The other consideration is what they DO with that thickness (e.g. re: battery, other electronics taking the extra space, etc).
  - djrogers 9y ago
    > There is even a big gap where the headphone jack was Not really, there was a little bit of space near the old jack, and he removed a critical part of the barometer to make the rest of the space. If you're removing parts you can't exactly claim that it was empty space.
  - jsjohnst 9y ago
    See my reply[0] above and point out on the image where this big gap is... [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15193211 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15193211
- croon 9y ago
  > Well, such a condition would rely on this being true and accurate. I'm not really confident there's any data that suggests how people are listening to music on their iPhone 7s at the moment, and really nothing to draw a conclusion from except "anecdata" Whether at a sum that decision was lucrative or not is inconsequential, as that comes down to how the market responds to their decision, but what you can argue is whether they make more off headsets now than before. Before they bundled regular corded buds, and you purchased new ones when your old ones broke. Now they sell $180 USD AirPods, and Beats, and bundle (IMO) clunky adapters. While I don't have data on this, I'm fairly confident in assuming their decision was made on this basis. The question is if this turned out as they hoped in sales. > The simpler explanation in my mind is that Apple wanted a thinner phone, and they did what they needed. How so, when there was obviously space enough for an end-user to fit a jack inside the final product?
coldtea 9y ago
>If some guy (he's obviously talented, but still a guy) can fit one inside an already manufactured iPhone 7, the company designing the phone obviously would have no problem fitting it in the dimensions it holds. The company is not forever planning on using the same dimensions of the current model -- but they can still plan ahead the removal. Besides, the "some guy" doing a mod doesn't have to meet the same guarantees (re: waterproofness, air-circulation inside etc) for the device, as Apple has. >Doesn't the fact that Apple being the company selling the AirPods (for a mighty hefty fee I might add) at least suggest the opposite of "moot", since they're making a lot of money on new headphones by removing the jack? You can still use any old pair of wired headphones with the free provided adaptor. So the removal doesn't force anyone to buy AirPods -- or any other of the tons of bluetooth headphones.
- croon 9y ago
  > You can still use any old pair of wired headphones with the free provided adaptor. So the removal doesn't force anyone to buy AirPods -- or any other of the tons of bluetooth headphones. While it may in a dry sense be true that the removal doesn't _force_ anyone to buy AirPods, I will strongly suggest that their customers aren't convinced that the adapter solution is sufficiently comparable [1]. [1] (Reviews) https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35...
valuearb 9y ago
This conspiracy theory is ridiculous. Apple must make 100x more money from iPhones than it does from AirPods and MFI combined. There is zero reason to degrade the value of iPhones to increase the value of accessories. And taking out the headphone jack doesn't do much for AirPods, the iPhone still has wired headphones either way.

by croon 9y ago

csydas 9y ago

> since they're making a lot of money on new headphones by removing the jack Well, such a condition would rely on this being true and accurate. I'm not really confident there's any data that suggests how people are listening to music on their iPhone 7s at the moment, and really nothing to draw a conclusion from except "anecdata". The simpler explanation in my mind is that Apple wanted a thinner phone, and they did what they needed. There was an article a few days ago from Xiaomi's Indian Product Manager who commented on the removal of the Headphone Jack on one of the Mi Phone releases. His insight was that despite what people say ("I don't care about thickness"), their surveys and testing overwhelmingly showed that consumers have a preference towards thinner phones. With this in mind, to me it seems more reasonable that Apple just decided to ditch the jack less they be caught making the fat phone. Your personal preferences may differ, but I think the more reasonable and sustainable conclusion is simply that Apple is chasing the thin phone.

dTal 9y ago
The iPhone 6s and the iPhone 7 are exactly the same thickness. There is even a big gap where the headphone jack was, that the author used to retrofit his own. The decision to remove it was not driven by here-and-now technical requirements.
- coldtea 9y ago
  That's one consideration. The other consideration is what they DO with that thickness (e.g. re: battery, other electronics taking the extra space, etc).
- djrogers 9y ago
  > There is even a big gap where the headphone jack was Not really, there was a little bit of space near the old jack, and he removed a critical part of the barometer to make the rest of the space. If you're removing parts you can't exactly claim that it was empty space.
- jsjohnst 9y ago
  See my reply[0] above and point out on the image where this big gap is... [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15193211 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15193211
croon 9y ago
> Well, such a condition would rely on this being true and accurate. I'm not really confident there's any data that suggests how people are listening to music on their iPhone 7s at the moment, and really nothing to draw a conclusion from except "anecdata" Whether at a sum that decision was lucrative or not is inconsequential, as that comes down to how the market responds to their decision, but what you can argue is whether they make more off headsets now than before. Before they bundled regular corded buds, and you purchased new ones when your old ones broke. Now they sell $180 USD AirPods, and Beats, and bundle (IMO) clunky adapters. While I don't have data on this, I'm fairly confident in assuming their decision was made on this basis. The question is if this turned out as they hoped in sales. > The simpler explanation in my mind is that Apple wanted a thinner phone, and they did what they needed. How so, when there was obviously space enough for an end-user to fit a jack inside the final product?

coldtea 9y ago

>If some guy (he's obviously talented, but still a guy) can fit one inside an already manufactured iPhone 7, the company designing the phone obviously would have no problem fitting it in the dimensions it holds. The company is not forever planning on using the same dimensions of the current model -- but they can still plan ahead the removal. Besides, the "some guy" doing a mod doesn't have to meet the same guarantees (re: waterproofness, air-circulation inside etc) for the device, as Apple has. >Doesn't the fact that Apple being the company selling the AirPods (for a mighty hefty fee I might add) at least suggest the opposite of "moot", since they're making a lot of money on new headphones by removing the jack? You can still use any old pair of wired headphones with the free provided adaptor. So the removal doesn't force anyone to buy AirPods -- or any other of the tons of bluetooth headphones.

croon 9y ago
> You can still use any old pair of wired headphones with the free provided adaptor. So the removal doesn't force anyone to buy AirPods -- or any other of the tons of bluetooth headphones. While it may in a dry sense be true that the removal doesn't _force_ anyone to buy AirPods, I will strongly suggest that their customers aren't convinced that the adapter solution is sufficiently comparable [1]. [1] (Reviews) https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35...

valuearb 9y ago

This conspiracy theory is ridiculous. Apple must make 100x more money from iPhones than it does from AirPods and MFI combined. There is zero reason to degrade the value of iPhones to increase the value of accessories. And taking out the headphone jack doesn't do much for AirPods, the iPhone still has wired headphones either way.