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> The paradigms are the same So Clojure, Java, Javascript, Haskell and Ruby are all basically the same? I think damage can be done hammering different languag

by Chris2048 9y ago

> The paradigms are the same So Clojure, Java, Javascript, Haskell and Ruby are all basically the same? I think damage can be done hammering different languages into the same methodologies.. > If a developer is skilled You suggest skill is generic. If a programmer is smart they can learn new paradigms. Projecting the paradigms they are used to onto new domains can produce problems, least of all the standardisation.

pmlnr 9y ago
> So Clojure, Java, Javascript, Haskell and Ruby are all basically the same? Basically, yes. You learn to think how, the rest is implementation. Don't get me wrong, it's not an immediate switch, it takes learning and time, but deep inside, the are the same indeed.
- smnplk 9y ago
  No, they are not the same, because they lead you (some more, some less) to different thinking when solving problems. Clojure and java don't have much in common, I think differently when I solve problems in Clojure vs Java. Haskell is also a very different beast. I see languages as frameworks for thinking and developers should embrace that and not fight it. Sure you can code in OO style using Clojure, but language was not designed for that.
reificator 9y ago
Of course Java and Javascript are the same, they've got the same name. It's just like grapes and grapefruit. Completely indistinguishable from one another.
- jrs235 9y ago
  A nail is a nail is a nail! You can use any nail for any application!
rootlocus 9y ago
> So Clojure, Java, Javascript, Haskell and Ruby are all basically the same? Nice try, but we were talking about PHP and Java. Also, for instance, functional paradigm is the same for all functional languages, which is what I meant in the first place. > You suggest skill is generic. I'm suggesting the developer understands the OOP paradigm, knows about design patterns and isn't confused by the small differences in syntax or how much a language borrows from each paradigm. Two languages using the same paradigm are closer to each other, regardless of how different their syntaxes may be. > Projecting the paradigms they are used to onto new domains can produce problems That's completely true, but I'm not going to write generic comments that cover every case. I'm replying to someone comparing PHP to Java. It's my understanding the PHP is mostly OOP.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  > Nice try, but we were talking about PHP and Java You started by saying "Software is software", you didn't mean this to imply all languages are similar? > functional paradigm is the same for all functional languages So Haskell and Clojure are similar? > understands the OOP paradigm, knows about design patterns Design patterns differ between languages. And OOP principles too. I don't want to see ConfigurationBuilderFactory classes in my Python code. > I'm not going to write generic comments that cover every case You only claimed "Two languages using the same paradigm are closer to each other" - but this seems tautologically true, depending on how you define "paradigm". Many OO languages differ in ways significant to the Java way of OOP.
  - rootlocus 9y ago
    > So Haskell and Clojure are similar? Yes. > Design patterns differ between languages. And OOP principles too Not that much compared to paradigms. They're closer to coding styles. Once you understand what encapsulation is and how python lacks visibility modifiers, it's only a matter of using a coding style to compensate. > "Two languages using the same paradigm are closer to each other" - but this seems tautologically true Taken out of context, sure, but you excluded the second part. That's why I think Haskell and Closure are similar.
jrs235 9y ago
>I think damage can be done hammering different languages into the same methodologies.. Using the incorrect nail for the job can lead to disaster or complications down the road. Think of using a nail that will rust over time being used on an exterior deck. Or a nail that is too long or thick for the pieces of lumber it is supposed to be securely (potentially splitting the boards).
falcolas 9y ago
Eh, we picked up a developer with no experience but Erlang, and he's productive in Python and Go only a few months later. Peer coding and good code reviews (and a good attitude) do wonders.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  What's "productive"? He's producing Pythonic Python? He can read other peoples code? If so, sounds like he's smart enough to pick it up.
wombatpm 9y ago
I've been told I can write FORTRAN in any language.

pmlnr 9y ago

> So Clojure, Java, Javascript, Haskell and Ruby are all basically the same? Basically, yes. You learn to think how, the rest is implementation. Don't get me wrong, it's not an immediate switch, it takes learning and time, but deep inside, the are the same indeed.

smnplk 9y ago
No, they are not the same, because they lead you (some more, some less) to different thinking when solving problems. Clojure and java don't have much in common, I think differently when I solve problems in Clojure vs Java. Haskell is also a very different beast. I see languages as frameworks for thinking and developers should embrace that and not fight it. Sure you can code in OO style using Clojure, but language was not designed for that.

reificator 9y ago

Of course Java and Javascript are the same, they've got the same name. It's just like grapes and grapefruit. Completely indistinguishable from one another.

jrs235 9y ago
A nail is a nail is a nail! You can use any nail for any application!

rootlocus 9y ago

> So Clojure, Java, Javascript, Haskell and Ruby are all basically the same? Nice try, but we were talking about PHP and Java. Also, for instance, functional paradigm is the same for all functional languages, which is what I meant in the first place. > You suggest skill is generic. I'm suggesting the developer understands the OOP paradigm, knows about design patterns and isn't confused by the small differences in syntax or how much a language borrows from each paradigm. Two languages using the same paradigm are closer to each other, regardless of how different their syntaxes may be. > Projecting the paradigms they are used to onto new domains can produce problems That's completely true, but I'm not going to write generic comments that cover every case. I'm replying to someone comparing PHP to Java. It's my understanding the PHP is mostly OOP.

Chris2048 9y ago
> Nice try, but we were talking about PHP and Java You started by saying "Software is software", you didn't mean this to imply all languages are similar? > functional paradigm is the same for all functional languages So Haskell and Clojure are similar? > understands the OOP paradigm, knows about design patterns Design patterns differ between languages. And OOP principles too. I don't want to see ConfigurationBuilderFactory classes in my Python code. > I'm not going to write generic comments that cover every case You only claimed "Two languages using the same paradigm are closer to each other" - but this seems tautologically true, depending on how you define "paradigm". Many OO languages differ in ways significant to the Java way of OOP.
- rootlocus 9y ago
  > So Haskell and Clojure are similar? Yes. > Design patterns differ between languages. And OOP principles too Not that much compared to paradigms. They're closer to coding styles. Once you understand what encapsulation is and how python lacks visibility modifiers, it's only a matter of using a coding style to compensate. > "Two languages using the same paradigm are closer to each other" - but this seems tautologically true Taken out of context, sure, but you excluded the second part. That's why I think Haskell and Closure are similar.

jrs235 9y ago

>I think damage can be done hammering different languages into the same methodologies.. Using the incorrect nail for the job can lead to disaster or complications down the road. Think of using a nail that will rust over time being used on an exterior deck. Or a nail that is too long or thick for the pieces of lumber it is supposed to be securely (potentially splitting the boards).

falcolas 9y ago

Eh, we picked up a developer with no experience but Erlang, and he's productive in Python and Go only a few months later. Peer coding and good code reviews (and a good attitude) do wonders.

Chris2048 9y ago
What's "productive"? He's producing Pythonic Python? He can read other peoples code? If so, sounds like he's smart enough to pick it up.

wombatpm 9y ago

I've been told I can write FORTRAN in any language.