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Does any manufacturer make 'simple' EVs? I mean that as in fewer computers. My current car is about 18 years old and besides the ECU there's not that much going

Does any manufacturer make 'simple' EVs? I mean that as in fewer computers. My current car is about 18 years old and besides the ECU there's not that much going on. No touchscreen controls, no telemetry. I hope that one day I'd be able to switch to an EV but I'm disappointed by most of them (and yes I understand I'm a minority in disliking smart everything)

kagamine 9y ago
You're not as alone as the media might lead you to think. There is a lot of hype and marketing going on with EVs to get people to adopt this change in technology that is consumer funded. I agree with you, there are too many nice-to-have features in cars that add to the [unnecessary] complexity of these vehicles. Late 90 cars started with this, adding air-bag suspension and corner-leveling systems and it has since grown into automatic windscreen wipers when it rains, automatic lights when it gets dark (like you aren't sitting there looking out the big window), touch screens and gadgets. Some things are useful, for example electric mirrors, others not so much for example 5 different memory positions for the driver's seat where before you just pulled the lever under the seat to move it forward or back. IN case you think this is not a problem it can cause problems with other critical electronic components: I had a dealership's workshop turn off my electric seats in the BCU (BCU = body control unit, the PC of the car) and this meant that because the ABS is linked through the seat, something to do with collisions and the seat moving, the ABS warning light came on leading to a MOT/EU-control fail. I had to buy a code-reader machine to turn it back on myself. On models of this car without electric seats this is not a problem. So many other things I could mention like this example. Simplicity, as I a m sure HN coders and the like will agree, is best.
- WalterBright 9y ago
  I've had several cars with electric windows. Most of them would fail, usually when it was raining and you needed to raise them. None of my cars with hand cranked windows has never failed at getting the windows up :-) I've had a car that had sensors for everything. Half of the failures requiring expensive repairs were sensor failures. Sigh.
  - kagamine 9y ago
    I just remembered a perfect example of over-engineering stupidity. A family member has an Audi A6 AWD and his routine service light came on. So being a man in his early 70s he went to check the oil and filters etc himself. He couldn't find the dipstick, so he googled it and found it to ... not exist. Instead of a dipstick there is an electronic sensor in the engine sump and a handy read-out on the built in display on the dash. Good luck fixing that when either the display fails, the sensor fails, the wiring fails... I mean, the dipstick worked for over a hundred years, but wasn't tech enough for an oil check in a 2015 model.
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      This is one of the reasons why my vehicles are 20 years old. Unfortunately they do have computers and are fuel injected (otherwise no way to pass emissions testing) but for the most part the mechanics are relatively simple. I really do not need a subscription to my car.
    - WalterBright 9y ago
      I watched a pilot do a preflight on his airplane, and he used a dipstick to check the fuel level. Gauges lie, the dipstick tells the truth.
      - phlo 9y ago
        Same goes for the fuel tanks. It's considered good airmanship to do a quick visual check of the fuel level and compare it to what the gauges tell you. And to drain some fuel from the lowest part of the tank to check it for water or other impurities.
  - arethuza 9y ago
    I've never had electric windows fail (and I've been driving for 30 years) but I have had a rental car where one of the hand cranked windows failed - it didn't fail to close, that worked fine but it did fail to stay closed. A gentle push downwards on the glass would make the window lower into the door with the handle spinning round.
- jlebar 9y ago
  I also don't want tons of screens and so on in my car. But automatic headlights? Where I live, I see (or, well, don't) cars driving at night without their lights all the time. Automatically turning them on when it gets dark seems like a no-brainer. The worst thing that happens is the sensor breaks and then they become manual headlights...
  - phlo 9y ago
    > The worst thing that happens is the sensor breaks and then they become manual headlights... Don't be too quick to disregard automation dependency. I agree that a headlight switch is probably quite low-risk, but every action you automate carries the risk of overloading the operator if it fails at the wrong time. Even two decades later, I find the 'Children of Magenta' talk highly illuminating. Maybe you'll find it interesting as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN41LvuSz10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN41LvuSz10
  - kagamine 9y ago
    I see the opposite problem where I live. Driving lights as they are referred to in Norway must be on during the day as well as at night. These are on the front of the car. On the back newer vehicles have the lights off by default and come on when they sense darkness. This means I have followed many cars in hard rain on dark/dusky days and you can't see them up ahead. The law is that rear lights have to be on in conditions where they are necessary, but ignorant drivers see light coming from the front of the car and don't think that people behind them travelling at 110km/h need t see them up ahead. Automation didn't solve any problem, cars used to have lights on front and back at all times, day and night (lots of tunnels in Norway), automation created a problem.
- sabertoothed 9y ago
  > as the media might lead you to think I really do not like sentences like this one (irrespective of the context). They give the false impression that... ...(1) there is a monolithic thing as "the media" ...(2) "the media" has one - among them - agreed upon agenda ...(3) their agenda is the opposite of what you want or hold true
pamqzl 9y ago
Not that many internal combustion powered cars you can buy nowadays without touch screens and the like, either. Maybe not Tesla-level yet, but in five years I'd be surprised if most new cars weren't filled with screens in the place of traditional instruments.
- therealidiot 9y ago
  That's true, but we still have old ICE powered cars for the moment, not really the case for EVs
louhike 9y ago
The Renault Zoe is a city car, but it's not cheap.

kagamine 9y ago

You're not as alone as the media might lead you to think. There is a lot of hype and marketing going on with EVs to get people to adopt this change in technology that is consumer funded. I agree with you, there are too many nice-to-have features in cars that add to the [unnecessary] complexity of these vehicles. Late 90 cars started with this, adding air-bag suspension and corner-leveling systems and it has since grown into automatic windscreen wipers when it rains, automatic lights when it gets dark (like you aren't sitting there looking out the big window), touch screens and gadgets. Some things are useful, for example electric mirrors, others not so much for example 5 different memory positions for the driver's seat where before you just pulled the lever under the seat to move it forward or back. IN case you think this is not a problem it can cause problems with other critical electronic components: I had a dealership's workshop turn off my electric seats in the BCU (BCU = body control unit, the PC of the car) and this meant that because the ABS is linked through the seat, something to do with collisions and the seat moving, the ABS warning light came on leading to a MOT/EU-control fail. I had to buy a code-reader machine to turn it back on myself. On models of this car without electric seats this is not a problem. So many other things I could mention like this example. Simplicity, as I a m sure HN coders and the like will agree, is best.

WalterBright 9y ago
I've had several cars with electric windows. Most of them would fail, usually when it was raining and you needed to raise them. None of my cars with hand cranked windows has never failed at getting the windows up :-) I've had a car that had sensors for everything. Half of the failures requiring expensive repairs were sensor failures. Sigh.
- kagamine 9y ago
  I just remembered a perfect example of over-engineering stupidity. A family member has an Audi A6 AWD and his routine service light came on. So being a man in his early 70s he went to check the oil and filters etc himself. He couldn't find the dipstick, so he googled it and found it to ... not exist. Instead of a dipstick there is an electronic sensor in the engine sump and a handy read-out on the built in display on the dash. Good luck fixing that when either the display fails, the sensor fails, the wiring fails... I mean, the dipstick worked for over a hundred years, but wasn't tech enough for an oil check in a 2015 model.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    This is one of the reasons why my vehicles are 20 years old. Unfortunately they do have computers and are fuel injected (otherwise no way to pass emissions testing) but for the most part the mechanics are relatively simple. I really do not need a subscription to my car.
  - WalterBright 9y ago
    I watched a pilot do a preflight on his airplane, and he used a dipstick to check the fuel level. Gauges lie, the dipstick tells the truth.
    - phlo 9y ago
      Same goes for the fuel tanks. It's considered good airmanship to do a quick visual check of the fuel level and compare it to what the gauges tell you. And to drain some fuel from the lowest part of the tank to check it for water or other impurities.
- arethuza 9y ago
  I've never had electric windows fail (and I've been driving for 30 years) but I have had a rental car where one of the hand cranked windows failed - it didn't fail to close, that worked fine but it did fail to stay closed. A gentle push downwards on the glass would make the window lower into the door with the handle spinning round.
jlebar 9y ago
I also don't want tons of screens and so on in my car. But automatic headlights? Where I live, I see (or, well, don't) cars driving at night without their lights all the time. Automatically turning them on when it gets dark seems like a no-brainer. The worst thing that happens is the sensor breaks and then they become manual headlights...
- phlo 9y ago
  > The worst thing that happens is the sensor breaks and then they become manual headlights... Don't be too quick to disregard automation dependency. I agree that a headlight switch is probably quite low-risk, but every action you automate carries the risk of overloading the operator if it fails at the wrong time. Even two decades later, I find the 'Children of Magenta' talk highly illuminating. Maybe you'll find it interesting as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN41LvuSz10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN41LvuSz10
- kagamine 9y ago
  I see the opposite problem where I live. Driving lights as they are referred to in Norway must be on during the day as well as at night. These are on the front of the car. On the back newer vehicles have the lights off by default and come on when they sense darkness. This means I have followed many cars in hard rain on dark/dusky days and you can't see them up ahead. The law is that rear lights have to be on in conditions where they are necessary, but ignorant drivers see light coming from the front of the car and don't think that people behind them travelling at 110km/h need t see them up ahead. Automation didn't solve any problem, cars used to have lights on front and back at all times, day and night (lots of tunnels in Norway), automation created a problem.
sabertoothed 9y ago
> as the media might lead you to think I really do not like sentences like this one (irrespective of the context). They give the false impression that... ...(1) there is a monolithic thing as "the media" ...(2) "the media" has one - among them - agreed upon agenda ...(3) their agenda is the opposite of what you want or hold true

pamqzl 9y ago

Not that many internal combustion powered cars you can buy nowadays without touch screens and the like, either. Maybe not Tesla-level yet, but in five years I'd be surprised if most new cars weren't filled with screens in the place of traditional instruments.

therealidiot 9y ago
That's true, but we still have old ICE powered cars for the moment, not really the case for EVs

louhike 9y ago

The Renault Zoe is a city car, but it's not cheap.