5 ms·

How does Prop 58 amount to an anti-assimilation ideas? It allows for bilingual education. If it were advocating for something other than English it would have

How does Prop 58 amount to an anti-assimilation ideas? It allows for bilingual education. If it were advocating for something other than English it would have merit. But that is not the case; "it preserves a portion of the statute mandating that all students become proficient in English, no matter what program they choose."

WillPostForFood 9y ago
Teaching in Spanish inherently is advocating for something other than English, and is definitionally anti-assimilation. You can see the meta message in this article. Fewer Latinos are speaking Spanish, so teach them more Spanish in schools to preserve the language and culture. Whether you think that's a good idea or not, it is anti-assimilation. http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/op-ed/article120912998.html http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/op-ed/article120912998.html
- padseeker 9y ago
  You need to do a lot better than Prop 58 before I can validate your anti-assimilation argument. #1 - At no point does the article you posted about prop 58 (from LA Times) say strictly English/Spanish bilingual education. Good idea or not, learning another language does not make it anti-assimilation. #2 Most European nations require learning another language. The French learn English, the Germans learn French. At no point does anyone in France feel like they are assimilating because they have to learn English. On top of that it wasn't that long ago Sarah Palin was revolting against teaching Chinese in California. Chinese is spoken by over a billion people and is a trading partner, it seems like a useful skill to have. But the whole thing reeked of xenophobic behavior. I am not Latino. I want my kids to learn another language. Spanish seems most useful considering the languages used south of the US, as well as South America. Most of the world's industrialized nations advocates for learning a second language. Only in the US with the cult of ignorance does someone look at bilingual education as an attack on their own culture. All the kids in the bilingual school my children attend learn Spanish. All speak English as their primary language. The whole revolting against learning another language, specifically Spanish, sounds like some sort of fabricated justification to take a swipe at Mexicans. Learning to speak another language != anti-assimilation. The "anti-assimilation" argument allow intellectuals to make their racist ideas sound like they have some principle.
  - WillPostForFood 9y ago
    #1 - the fact that they don't have to specify, and we both know they mean spanish says it all. We have immigrants from Africa, from Brazil, from Italy, from Poland, but where are the Polish "bilingual" classes, Italian, or Portuguese? Everyone should learn a second language, I learned Spanish in Middle and High School, and German in College. The problem with Prop 58, and the old system in California, is only learning one language, and that language not being English. We know kids learn languages faster when immersed in it. When you take a kid who only knows Spanish, and you teach them in Spanish, you are either crippling them, or you have an ulterior motive to put Spanish on an equal level as English. I believe the second is the intent, and the first is the outcome.
    - padseeker 9y ago
      You still have to do better than prop 58. And you sound like you are contradicting your argument here. "The problem with Prop 58, and the old system in California, is only learning one language, and that language not being English. We know kids learn languages faster when immersed in it." From ballotpedia, make what you will of it; https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_58,_Non-English_Languages_Allowed_in_Public_Education_(2016) https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_58,_Non-Engli... Supporters made the following arguments in support of Proposition 58:[2] -The proposition would allow all students to become proficient in English as soon as possible. -The proposition would encourage schools to use instruction programs rather than expand multilingual education, thereby providing English speakers the opportunity to learn a second language. -The proposition would restore local control for California schools. -The proposition's changes would prepare students more effectively for the future. -Multilingual education encourages "intercultural interactions and empathy." You still have to do better than just Prop 58. You are tipping your hand with the quote "you have an ulterior motive to put Spanish on an equal level as English". I guess I'm happier that you are putting that in the open, but it definitely sounds xenophobic. Are there people who might feel that way? Perhaps, but you cannot put all those people in the same group. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a kid who was born elsewhere but is in a US school who isn't compelled to learn english.

WillPostForFood 9y ago

Teaching in Spanish inherently is advocating for something other than English, and is definitionally anti-assimilation. You can see the meta message in this article. Fewer Latinos are speaking Spanish, so teach them more Spanish in schools to preserve the language and culture. Whether you think that's a good idea or not, it is anti-assimilation. http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/op-ed/article120912998.html http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/op-ed/article120912998.html

padseeker 9y ago
You need to do a lot better than Prop 58 before I can validate your anti-assimilation argument. #1 - At no point does the article you posted about prop 58 (from LA Times) say strictly English/Spanish bilingual education. Good idea or not, learning another language does not make it anti-assimilation. #2 Most European nations require learning another language. The French learn English, the Germans learn French. At no point does anyone in France feel like they are assimilating because they have to learn English. On top of that it wasn't that long ago Sarah Palin was revolting against teaching Chinese in California. Chinese is spoken by over a billion people and is a trading partner, it seems like a useful skill to have. But the whole thing reeked of xenophobic behavior. I am not Latino. I want my kids to learn another language. Spanish seems most useful considering the languages used south of the US, as well as South America. Most of the world's industrialized nations advocates for learning a second language. Only in the US with the cult of ignorance does someone look at bilingual education as an attack on their own culture. All the kids in the bilingual school my children attend learn Spanish. All speak English as their primary language. The whole revolting against learning another language, specifically Spanish, sounds like some sort of fabricated justification to take a swipe at Mexicans. Learning to speak another language != anti-assimilation. The "anti-assimilation" argument allow intellectuals to make their racist ideas sound like they have some principle.
- WillPostForFood 9y ago
  #1 - the fact that they don't have to specify, and we both know they mean spanish says it all. We have immigrants from Africa, from Brazil, from Italy, from Poland, but where are the Polish "bilingual" classes, Italian, or Portuguese? Everyone should learn a second language, I learned Spanish in Middle and High School, and German in College. The problem with Prop 58, and the old system in California, is only learning one language, and that language not being English. We know kids learn languages faster when immersed in it. When you take a kid who only knows Spanish, and you teach them in Spanish, you are either crippling them, or you have an ulterior motive to put Spanish on an equal level as English. I believe the second is the intent, and the first is the outcome.
  - padseeker 9y ago
    You still have to do better than prop 58. And you sound like you are contradicting your argument here. "The problem with Prop 58, and the old system in California, is only learning one language, and that language not being English. We know kids learn languages faster when immersed in it." From ballotpedia, make what you will of it; https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_58,_Non-English_Languages_Allowed_in_Public_Education_(2016) https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_58,_Non-Engli... Supporters made the following arguments in support of Proposition 58:[2] -The proposition would allow all students to become proficient in English as soon as possible. -The proposition would encourage schools to use instruction programs rather than expand multilingual education, thereby providing English speakers the opportunity to learn a second language. -The proposition would restore local control for California schools. -The proposition's changes would prepare students more effectively for the future. -Multilingual education encourages "intercultural interactions and empathy." You still have to do better than just Prop 58. You are tipping your hand with the quote "you have an ulterior motive to put Spanish on an equal level as English". I guess I'm happier that you are putting that in the open, but it definitely sounds xenophobic. Are there people who might feel that way? Perhaps, but you cannot put all those people in the same group. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a kid who was born elsewhere but is in a US school who isn't compelled to learn english.