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Why can't Google submit patches to make it work for embedded devices? I don't see the point of a separate version of Java. Imagine if you could develop Android

by haglin 9y ago

Why can't Google submit patches to make it work for embedded devices? I don't see the point of a separate version of Java. Imagine if you could develop Android apps against the latest version of Java.

sk0g 9y ago
And Google should spend their time and money improving Java, owned by a company that massively sued them?
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Apparently the server team does exactly that! Search for Google. http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mlvm/jvmlangsummit/agenda.html http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mlvm/jvmlangsummit/agenda.h... http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mlvm/summit2014/agenda.html http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mlvm/summit2014/agenda.html
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  Yes. I don't care about their petty squabble. As an Android dev, I'm sick and tired of not being able to use things because Google thinks they're special.
xienze 9y ago
I think it's more of a legal/licensing move than a technical challenge. You write and compile Java but then it's translated to bytecode for a different VM (Dalvik, I presume this is still the case though I hear there's additional native compilation that occurs now). Net result, developers get to write Java but Google doesn't have to pay royalties for a proper VM on every device.
bitmapbrother 9y ago
What would you use to build the UI for your app? AWT? Swing? JavaFX? There is also the issue of all of the Android specific SDK code that would probably never be applicable for cross platform reuse. And then there's the JVM which would also probably require massive changes to adhere to Android's VM requirements (as it stands right now, ART and the JVM aren't even in the same architectural ballpark as one is register based and the other is stack based). The level of resistance to these changes would introduce would also be a major issue and more so than the friction Google faces when trying to upstream Android related changes to the Linux kernel. Incidentally, there's a project called OpenJDK Mobile[1] on the OpenJDK project site that aims to port the OpenJDK to popular mobile platforms. Not sure where they're at with it, but it seems to be a WIP. [1]http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mobile/ http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mobile/
- pjmlp 9y ago
  LWAWT could be a start. Then there are quite a few embedded device OEMs that don't have the same problems than Google has supporting standard Java, some of them targeting real time embedded devices. Maybe Google should ask them how they manage to do it.
  - bitmapbrother 9y ago
    Why would they waste their time when Sun/Oracle couldn't even figure it out to this day.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      Sun had it figured out and was even sponsoring SavaJe OS, but then Google ripped off their work and gave it away for free.
      - bitmapbrother 9y ago
        No Sun did not have it figured out and history has proven this. Sun just couldn't compete from a technology perspective because no OEM was going to choose a vastly inferior OS. BTW, here's a picture of your SavaJe phone. No wonder OEM's fled in horror. https://www.engadget.com/2006/05/13/savaje-releases-jasper-s20-java-phone/ https://www.engadget.com/2006/05/13/savaje-releases-jasper-s...
        pjmlp 9y ago
        The phone was quite nice, when comparing with many of the Nokia and Siemens Ericson phones of those days. It is easy to fail when a competitor is giving away for free a stolen OS. Of course OEMs will choose free.
        bitmapbrother 9y ago
        Stolen OS LOL. Just when you think the BS couldn't be piled any higher you take it to another level. Why would you say something as embarrassing as this? If you think using 38 open source Java API declaration packages constitutes an OS then you clearly have no idea as to what an OS is. >Of course OEMs will choose free. Is that why they also chose Windows Phone?

by haglin 9y ago

sk0g 9y ago

And Google should spend their time and money improving Java, owned by a company that massively sued them?

pjmlp 9y ago
Apparently the server team does exactly that! Search for Google. http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mlvm/jvmlangsummit/agenda.html http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mlvm/jvmlangsummit/agenda.h... http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mlvm/summit2014/agenda.html http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mlvm/summit2014/agenda.html
s73ver_ 9y ago
Yes. I don't care about their petty squabble. As an Android dev, I'm sick and tired of not being able to use things because Google thinks they're special.

xienze 9y ago

I think it's more of a legal/licensing move than a technical challenge. You write and compile Java but then it's translated to bytecode for a different VM (Dalvik, I presume this is still the case though I hear there's additional native compilation that occurs now). Net result, developers get to write Java but Google doesn't have to pay royalties for a proper VM on every device.

bitmapbrother 9y ago

What would you use to build the UI for your app? AWT? Swing? JavaFX? There is also the issue of all of the Android specific SDK code that would probably never be applicable for cross platform reuse. And then there's the JVM which would also probably require massive changes to adhere to Android's VM requirements (as it stands right now, ART and the JVM aren't even in the same architectural ballpark as one is register based and the other is stack based). The level of resistance to these changes would introduce would also be a major issue and more so than the friction Google faces when trying to upstream Android related changes to the Linux kernel. Incidentally, there's a project called OpenJDK Mobile[1] on the OpenJDK project site that aims to port the OpenJDK to popular mobile platforms. Not sure where they're at with it, but it seems to be a WIP. [1]http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mobile/ http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mobile/

pjmlp 9y ago
LWAWT could be a start. Then there are quite a few embedded device OEMs that don't have the same problems than Google has supporting standard Java, some of them targeting real time embedded devices. Maybe Google should ask them how they manage to do it.
- bitmapbrother 9y ago
  Why would they waste their time when Sun/Oracle couldn't even figure it out to this day.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Sun had it figured out and was even sponsoring SavaJe OS, but then Google ripped off their work and gave it away for free.
    - bitmapbrother 9y ago
      No Sun did not have it figured out and history has proven this. Sun just couldn't compete from a technology perspective because no OEM was going to choose a vastly inferior OS. BTW, here's a picture of your SavaJe phone. No wonder OEM's fled in horror. https://www.engadget.com/2006/05/13/savaje-releases-jasper-s20-java-phone/ https://www.engadget.com/2006/05/13/savaje-releases-jasper-s...
      - pjmlp 9y ago
        The phone was quite nice, when comparing with many of the Nokia and Siemens Ericson phones of those days. It is easy to fail when a competitor is giving away for free a stolen OS. Of course OEMs will choose free.
        bitmapbrother 9y ago
        Stolen OS LOL. Just when you think the BS couldn't be piled any higher you take it to another level. Why would you say something as embarrassing as this? If you think using 38 open source Java API declaration packages constitutes an OS then you clearly have no idea as to what an OS is. >Of course OEMs will choose free. Is that why they also chose Windows Phone?