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Call me selfish, but I personally don't worry about the future of humanity in thousands of years. Well, how many years ahead are you willing to worry? 10? 100

by nkurz 9y ago

Call me selfish, but I personally don't worry about the future of humanity in thousands of years. Well, how many years ahead are you willing to worry? 10? 100? It sounds like you might be saying that you don't put much weight on the future of humanity on any timescale, and worry only about things that affect you personally. If so, then yes, I'd say that is the definition of selfish. I'm sure most people don't either. It might look this way, but what makes you sure that this is true of "most people", rather than just some people in some societies? We're all selfish bastards. I don't think this is true.

grondilu 9y ago
> Well, how many years ahead are you willing to worry? 10? 100? Let me reverse the question : how many years ahead is enough for you not to worry? A million years? Fifty billions? Do you worry about the ultimate fate of the universe[1]? It's pretty clear to me that, all other things being equal, events tend to matter less and less as they are occurring further and further into the future. That's why, for instance, most young people don't worry much about death, unless they're told it will happen soon. I don't have an accurate way to measure it, but to me, once you start talking about thousands of years, it's such a far future that I don't worry about it. > but what makes you sure that this is true of "most people", People are anxious or obsessed about many things, but I very rarely hear anyone whining about the future of the World in geological time scales. There is of course the famous exception of the young Woody Halen in Annie Hall[2], but it's a comical scene precisely for this reason : most people don't worry about these stuff. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_fate_of_the_universe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_fate_of_the_universe 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pa34orcwwA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pa34orcwwA
- nkurz 9y ago
  Let me reverse the question: how many years ahead is enough for you not to worry? A fair question. I'm not worried by the heat death of the universe, as I'm fairly certain that any action I take during my life will have no effect on it. I can't really picture the difference between a million years and a billion, so they don't really concern me, although I don't have a logical explanation for this. My actual concerns vary between the 100 to 10,000 year time frame. I'm periodically incapacitated by my inability to find a convincing counterargument to the Great Filter theory, whereby the reason we haven't ever ever encountered aliens is because all civilizations collapse before achieving interstellar travel. While I'm doubtful that I can personally do anything to prevent this eventuality, when I do have hope, it's that I can make it slightly less likely or less catastrophic. There is of course the famous exception of the young Woody Halen in Annie Hall[2], but it's a comical scene precisely for this reason : most people don't worry about these stuff. Thanks for the link, although I find it more bittersweet than straightforwardly humorous. Having had similar failed conversations with psychological professionals over the years, I sympathize with young Alvy. I can say from experience that trying to explain your concerns about the 1000 year time frame doesn't go over any better.
VeronicaJJ123 9y ago
> , but what makes you sure that this is true of "most people", The climate change bandwagon is joined only by tiny Europe and some parts of America. We Indians or our Chinese neighbors don't care much about global warming and will never care of course unless until we can guilt trip the rich nations into giving us money to do something in that case it is a good deal at the expense of people like you. India + China is approx 1/3rd of world population. I think that should qualify for "most people".
nsxwolf 9y ago
Let's put it this way - I won't sacrifice something my child needs for the benefit of someone who will be born in the year 10000. I care about that far future person in an abstract way. Maybe I'll buy an electric car and feel a bit better about those future people. But I definitely care more immediately and viscerally for the here and now.

by nkurz 9y ago

grondilu 9y ago

> Well, how many years ahead are you willing to worry? 10? 100? Let me reverse the question : how many years ahead is enough for you not to worry? A million years? Fifty billions? Do you worry about the ultimate fate of the universe[1]? It's pretty clear to me that, all other things being equal, events tend to matter less and less as they are occurring further and further into the future. That's why, for instance, most young people don't worry much about death, unless they're told it will happen soon. I don't have an accurate way to measure it, but to me, once you start talking about thousands of years, it's such a far future that I don't worry about it. > but what makes you sure that this is true of "most people", People are anxious or obsessed about many things, but I very rarely hear anyone whining about the future of the World in geological time scales. There is of course the famous exception of the young Woody Halen in Annie Hall[2], but it's a comical scene precisely for this reason : most people don't worry about these stuff. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_fate_of_the_universe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_fate_of_the_universe 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pa34orcwwA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pa34orcwwA

nkurz 9y ago
Let me reverse the question: how many years ahead is enough for you not to worry? A fair question. I'm not worried by the heat death of the universe, as I'm fairly certain that any action I take during my life will have no effect on it. I can't really picture the difference between a million years and a billion, so they don't really concern me, although I don't have a logical explanation for this. My actual concerns vary between the 100 to 10,000 year time frame. I'm periodically incapacitated by my inability to find a convincing counterargument to the Great Filter theory, whereby the reason we haven't ever ever encountered aliens is because all civilizations collapse before achieving interstellar travel. While I'm doubtful that I can personally do anything to prevent this eventuality, when I do have hope, it's that I can make it slightly less likely or less catastrophic. There is of course the famous exception of the young Woody Halen in Annie Hall[2], but it's a comical scene precisely for this reason : most people don't worry about these stuff. Thanks for the link, although I find it more bittersweet than straightforwardly humorous. Having had similar failed conversations with psychological professionals over the years, I sympathize with young Alvy. I can say from experience that trying to explain your concerns about the 1000 year time frame doesn't go over any better.

VeronicaJJ123 9y ago

> , but what makes you sure that this is true of "most people", The climate change bandwagon is joined only by tiny Europe and some parts of America. We Indians or our Chinese neighbors don't care much about global warming and will never care of course unless until we can guilt trip the rich nations into giving us money to do something in that case it is a good deal at the expense of people like you. India + China is approx 1/3rd of world population. I think that should qualify for "most people".

nsxwolf 9y ago

Let's put it this way - I won't sacrifice something my child needs for the benefit of someone who will be born in the year 10000. I care about that far future person in an abstract way. Maybe I'll buy an electric car and feel a bit better about those future people. But I definitely care more immediately and viscerally for the here and now.