3 ms·

Culture and society engage with one another. To take an extremely concrete example, our society takes every possible opportunity to treat young unwed mothers li

Culture and society engage with one another. To take an extremely concrete example, our society takes every possible opportunity to treat young unwed mothers like absolute shit. "Raising up" the culture of people who are unsurprised that people at the peak of their fertility tend to get pregnant even in an environment where marriage is increasingly unattainable to that population is more about not going out of our way to kick people while they're down than hobbling the excellent.

antisthenes 9y ago
I take huge issue with this statement because it tries to sneak certain statements past the reader without evidence. How do you mean marriage is increasingly unattainable ? A marriage license costs $55. Are you alluding to something else here? Single mothers are one of the last bastions of subsidies and welfare, especially considering how everything else has been scaled down in the recent years. > our society takes every possible opportunity to treat young unwed mothers like absolute shit. I have plenty of anecdata to the contrary. I'd like to hear why you think this, there must be a somewhat personal reason.
- Veelox 9y ago
  Not op and not exactly what you ask for. Welfare is structured so that single moms get more money if they stay single. It is bad for the kids to grow up without a father and it is bad for society to encourage it. Source: Wife worked in a homeless shelter.
  - antisthenes 9y ago
    Appreciated all the same. Poor policies that leave people in poverty traps (e.g. having a single mom find a job that pays barely above her welfare benefits shouldn't be stripping her of benefits, but a much more gradual sliding scale instead) should constantly be brought to light and fixed. > It is bad for the kids to grow up without a father and it is bad for society to encourage it. Absolutely, but to fix that we also have to look at why the fathers aren't sticking around, not only why single mothers aren't remarrying and/or getting out of poverty quicker.
    - Veelox 9y ago
      I think we agree, poverty traps need to be fixed. I think there are a lot of reasons fathers aren't sticking around. I think a lot of those can be helped if there was less drug use and gang violence and more enfranchise on education, family planning, and marriage. I think there are both structural (welfare, education, ect) and cultural changes that need to be made before all of those areas can be improved.
- bcoates 9y ago
  A little googling: TANF (the last vestige of single-mother welfare) is ~$30bn/yr for the whole US, state & federal contribution. SSDI (a mix of people with severe medical problems and the work-shy) is $150bn/yr. OASI (I'm old - gimmie money) is $813bn/yr Medicare (I'm old - gimmie healthcare) is $709bn/yr Single mother welfare is a rounding error in the budget compared to other subsidies and welfare, which is mostly diverted towards older and wealthier people. I'm not just talking about cash welfare -- try holding down a job while raising a kid by your own and see how much our society will bend over backwards to accommodate any lifestyle choice other than single child-rearing. I don't have a dog in this fight - I'm a middle-aged, childless single guy. But I have eyes to see and it doesn't take much research to figure out who's getting the short end of the stick in our social order.
  - antisthenes 9y ago
    I appreciate the elaboration of your position, we seem to have more in common than originally thought. > But I have eyes to see and it doesn't take much research to figure out who's getting the short end of the stick in our social order. Part of the plight of single mothers is rising inequality and inability of the fathers to find decent jobs. Whenever arguments about children are made, I strongly believe at looking at a broader picture - how can we make sure the child grows up in a nuclear family for at least 16-18 years? I think that has to be looked at in the context of both sexes. Thanks for the numbers as well, although I believe medical care is also subsidized for single mothers (at their median income level). It's hard to argue against expanding TANF (One of my college Economics courses examined effectiveness of welfare programs, and found that TANF was the most beneficial as far as how far each dollar goes).

antisthenes 9y ago

I take huge issue with this statement because it tries to sneak certain statements past the reader without evidence. How do you mean marriage is increasingly unattainable ? A marriage license costs $55. Are you alluding to something else here? Single mothers are one of the last bastions of subsidies and welfare, especially considering how everything else has been scaled down in the recent years. > our society takes every possible opportunity to treat young unwed mothers like absolute shit. I have plenty of anecdata to the contrary. I'd like to hear why you think this, there must be a somewhat personal reason.

Veelox 9y ago
Not op and not exactly what you ask for. Welfare is structured so that single moms get more money if they stay single. It is bad for the kids to grow up without a father and it is bad for society to encourage it. Source: Wife worked in a homeless shelter.
- antisthenes 9y ago
  Appreciated all the same. Poor policies that leave people in poverty traps (e.g. having a single mom find a job that pays barely above her welfare benefits shouldn't be stripping her of benefits, but a much more gradual sliding scale instead) should constantly be brought to light and fixed. > It is bad for the kids to grow up without a father and it is bad for society to encourage it. Absolutely, but to fix that we also have to look at why the fathers aren't sticking around, not only why single mothers aren't remarrying and/or getting out of poverty quicker.
  - Veelox 9y ago
    I think we agree, poverty traps need to be fixed. I think there are a lot of reasons fathers aren't sticking around. I think a lot of those can be helped if there was less drug use and gang violence and more enfranchise on education, family planning, and marriage. I think there are both structural (welfare, education, ect) and cultural changes that need to be made before all of those areas can be improved.
bcoates 9y ago
A little googling: TANF (the last vestige of single-mother welfare) is ~$30bn/yr for the whole US, state & federal contribution. SSDI (a mix of people with severe medical problems and the work-shy) is $150bn/yr. OASI (I'm old - gimmie money) is $813bn/yr Medicare (I'm old - gimmie healthcare) is $709bn/yr Single mother welfare is a rounding error in the budget compared to other subsidies and welfare, which is mostly diverted towards older and wealthier people. I'm not just talking about cash welfare -- try holding down a job while raising a kid by your own and see how much our society will bend over backwards to accommodate any lifestyle choice other than single child-rearing. I don't have a dog in this fight - I'm a middle-aged, childless single guy. But I have eyes to see and it doesn't take much research to figure out who's getting the short end of the stick in our social order.
- antisthenes 9y ago
  I appreciate the elaboration of your position, we seem to have more in common than originally thought. > But I have eyes to see and it doesn't take much research to figure out who's getting the short end of the stick in our social order. Part of the plight of single mothers is rising inequality and inability of the fathers to find decent jobs. Whenever arguments about children are made, I strongly believe at looking at a broader picture - how can we make sure the child grows up in a nuclear family for at least 16-18 years? I think that has to be looked at in the context of both sexes. Thanks for the numbers as well, although I believe medical care is also subsidized for single mothers (at their median income level). It's hard to argue against expanding TANF (One of my college Economics courses examined effectiveness of welfare programs, and found that TANF was the most beneficial as far as how far each dollar goes).