7 ms·

"Nor are the single-parent, antisocial habits, prevalent among some working-class whites; the anti-“acting white” rap culture of inner-city blacks; the anti-ass

"Nor are the single-parent, antisocial habits, prevalent among some working-class whites; the anti-“acting white” rap culture of inner-city blacks; the anti-assimilation ideas gaining ground among some Hispanic immigrants" Already you lost me. There are plenty of single parents out of wedlock children in very white states like West Virginia, Kentucky, etc. How is rap culture or black people responsible for the actions of white people in these areas? I live in a big city, my kids go to a bilingual school. Every parent there, hispanic or not, want their kids to do well, to get a good education, go to college, succeed professionally and personally. All of them have absorbed some American attitudes to one degree or another. The few parents who don't speak english well want their children to do so. None of these people are against assimilating. There may be legitimate concerns of substance here, about having children out of wedlock, parents who are stretched thin. But this paragraph right here reads like thinly veiled racism targeted towards blacks and hispanics. All the sociological rhetoric does not hide this at all.

coldtea 9y ago
>Already you lost me. There are plenty of single parents out of wedlock children in very white states like West Virginia, Kentucky, etc. How is rap culture or black people responsible for the actions of white people in these areas? Where did the author said it is? They said there are "single-parent, antisocial habits" that are prevalent among some working-class whites" AND an "anti-“acting white” rap culture of inner-city blacks" AND " anti-assimilation ideas gaining ground among some Hispanic immigrants". Three kinds of issues -- not an issue and two explanations for it. >None of these people are against assimilating. Hence the phrasing "anti-assimilation ideas gaining ground among SOME" -- the author did not write "prevalent in ALL".
- padseeker 9y ago
  Amy Wax said it, quoted by the author. It's in the article. 7th paragraph down.
  - WillPostForFood 9y ago
    You are misreading it, she is listing three distinct groups, note the semicolons in the list. She is in no way saying one group is affecting the other, just that they all share non-bourgeois values. Regarding being "not suited to a First World, 21st-century environment." she adds: Nor are: the single-parent, antisocial habits, prevalent among some working-class whites; the anti-“acting white” rap culture of inner-city blacks; the anti-assimilation ideas gaining ground among some Hispanic immigrants
- padseeker 9y ago
  Show me hard proof of "anti-assimilation" ideas, not one obscure student group in California. I want real evidence. This whole passage reeks of a manufactured justification for racism.
  - WillPostForFood 9y ago
    Prop 58 was an anti-assimilation idea: http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-election-day-2016-proposition-58-bilingual-1478220414-htmlstory.html http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-elec...
    - padseeker 9y ago
      How does Prop 58 amount to an anti-assimilation ideas? It allows for bilingual education. If it were advocating for something other than English it would have merit. But that is not the case; "it preserves a portion of the statute mandating that all students become proficient in English, no matter what program they choose."
      - WillPostForFood 9y ago
        Teaching in Spanish inherently is advocating for something other than English, and is definitionally anti-assimilation. You can see the meta message in this article. Fewer Latinos are speaking Spanish, so teach them more Spanish in schools to preserve the language and culture. Whether you think that's a good idea or not, it is anti-assimilation. http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/op-ed/article120912998.html http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/op-ed/article120912998.html
        padseeker 9y ago
        You need to do a lot better than Prop 58 before I can validate your anti-assimilation argument. #1 - At no point does the article you posted about prop 58 (from LA Times) say strictly English/Spanish bilingual education. Good idea or not, learning another language does not make it anti-assimilation. #2 Most European nations require learning another language. The French learn English, the Germans learn French. At no point does anyone in France feel like they are assimilating because they have to learn English. On top of that it wasn't that long ago Sarah Palin was revolting against teaching Chinese in California. Chinese is spoken by over a billion people and is a trading partner, it seems like a useful skill to have. But the whole thing reeked of xenophobic behavior. I am not Latino. I want my kids to learn another language. Spanish seems most useful considering the languages used south of the US, as well as South America. Most of the world's industrialized nations advocates for learning a second language. Only in the US with the cult of ignorance does someone look at bilingual education as an attack on their own culture. All the kids in the bilingual school my children attend learn Spanish. All speak English as their primary language. The whole revolting against learning another language, specifically Spanish, sounds like some sort of fabricated justification to take a swipe at Mexicans. Learning to speak another language != anti-assimilation. The "anti-assimilation" argument allow intellectuals to make their racist ideas sound like they have some principle.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
ameister14 9y ago
>the single-parent, antisocial habits, prevalent among some working-class whites You quoted it
rpiguy 9y ago
This is not thinly veiled racism. What the author was ineloquently trying to point out is simple. African American's have been screwed by the system and so they have been taught not only distrust the system, but also to resent authority. Furthermore, these communities are now self-seggragating. Where at one time there was a vision/dream/fantasy that African Americans and Whites were converging toward the same destinations. We would all end up in suburbs, or brownstones, ala the Cosby's. At some point African Americans, with encouragement through identity politics, perhaps rightly who am I to say, shifted toward wanting their own identity. Now when you are raised to resent authority, and to live in your own subculture, you are cutting yourself off from the available avenues for success. Chances are many of your bosses will be white, many of your teachers and professors will be white. If you are taught to resent and discount them, you are at an immediate disadvantage. You have to listen to your boss, or at least give them a fair shot to make a living and advance. When you start your job as an adversary you cannot get power through the avenues readily available in broader society. This is the author's point. Without the shared "bourgeois" values, as she calls it, makes succeeding very hard. I will also note that there may be other ways to solve this problem aside from sharing those values.
- solotronics 9y ago
  how do you change a social system without modifying its values? values lead to actions leads to change etc.
  - rpiguy 9y ago
    The article is not arguing that values shouldn't change, just that empirically the new values we have chosen (single parenthood, self segregation, etc.) are producing inferior outcomes to the old bourgeois values. There is no argument as to whether there are other superior values to adopt, etc. There must be other paths forward but the article doesn't go there. You can in some instances enact major shifts in social systems without modifying its core values. Values and beliefs are two different things. For example giving women the right to vote was a major change, but didn't shift any of the classic core American values (to be trite, freedom, independence, etc.)

coldtea 9y ago

>Already you lost me. There are plenty of single parents out of wedlock children in very white states like West Virginia, Kentucky, etc. How is rap culture or black people responsible for the actions of white people in these areas? Where did the author said it is? They said there are "single-parent, antisocial habits" that are prevalent among some working-class whites" AND an "anti-“acting white” rap culture of inner-city blacks" AND " anti-assimilation ideas gaining ground among some Hispanic immigrants". Three kinds of issues -- not an issue and two explanations for it. >None of these people are against assimilating. Hence the phrasing "anti-assimilation ideas gaining ground among SOME" -- the author did not write "prevalent in ALL".

padseeker 9y ago
Amy Wax said it, quoted by the author. It's in the article. 7th paragraph down.
- WillPostForFood 9y ago
  You are misreading it, she is listing three distinct groups, note the semicolons in the list. She is in no way saying one group is affecting the other, just that they all share non-bourgeois values. Regarding being "not suited to a First World, 21st-century environment." she adds: Nor are: the single-parent, antisocial habits, prevalent among some working-class whites; the anti-“acting white” rap culture of inner-city blacks; the anti-assimilation ideas gaining ground among some Hispanic immigrants
padseeker 9y ago
Show me hard proof of "anti-assimilation" ideas, not one obscure student group in California. I want real evidence. This whole passage reeks of a manufactured justification for racism.
- WillPostForFood 9y ago
  Prop 58 was an anti-assimilation idea: http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-election-day-2016-proposition-58-bilingual-1478220414-htmlstory.html http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-elec...
  - padseeker 9y ago
    How does Prop 58 amount to an anti-assimilation ideas? It allows for bilingual education. If it were advocating for something other than English it would have merit. But that is not the case; "it preserves a portion of the statute mandating that all students become proficient in English, no matter what program they choose."
    - WillPostForFood 9y ago
      Teaching in Spanish inherently is advocating for something other than English, and is definitionally anti-assimilation. You can see the meta message in this article. Fewer Latinos are speaking Spanish, so teach them more Spanish in schools to preserve the language and culture. Whether you think that's a good idea or not, it is anti-assimilation. http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/op-ed/article120912998.html http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/op-ed/article120912998.html
      - padseeker 9y ago
        You need to do a lot better than Prop 58 before I can validate your anti-assimilation argument. #1 - At no point does the article you posted about prop 58 (from LA Times) say strictly English/Spanish bilingual education. Good idea or not, learning another language does not make it anti-assimilation. #2 Most European nations require learning another language. The French learn English, the Germans learn French. At no point does anyone in France feel like they are assimilating because they have to learn English. On top of that it wasn't that long ago Sarah Palin was revolting against teaching Chinese in California. Chinese is spoken by over a billion people and is a trading partner, it seems like a useful skill to have. But the whole thing reeked of xenophobic behavior. I am not Latino. I want my kids to learn another language. Spanish seems most useful considering the languages used south of the US, as well as South America. Most of the world's industrialized nations advocates for learning a second language. Only in the US with the cult of ignorance does someone look at bilingual education as an attack on their own culture. All the kids in the bilingual school my children attend learn Spanish. All speak English as their primary language. The whole revolting against learning another language, specifically Spanish, sounds like some sort of fabricated justification to take a swipe at Mexicans. Learning to speak another language != anti-assimilation. The "anti-assimilation" argument allow intellectuals to make their racist ideas sound like they have some principle.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

ameister14 9y ago

>the single-parent, antisocial habits, prevalent among some working-class whites You quoted it

rpiguy 9y ago

This is not thinly veiled racism. What the author was ineloquently trying to point out is simple. African American's have been screwed by the system and so they have been taught not only distrust the system, but also to resent authority. Furthermore, these communities are now self-seggragating. Where at one time there was a vision/dream/fantasy that African Americans and Whites were converging toward the same destinations. We would all end up in suburbs, or brownstones, ala the Cosby's. At some point African Americans, with encouragement through identity politics, perhaps rightly who am I to say, shifted toward wanting their own identity. Now when you are raised to resent authority, and to live in your own subculture, you are cutting yourself off from the available avenues for success. Chances are many of your bosses will be white, many of your teachers and professors will be white. If you are taught to resent and discount them, you are at an immediate disadvantage. You have to listen to your boss, or at least give them a fair shot to make a living and advance. When you start your job as an adversary you cannot get power through the avenues readily available in broader society. This is the author's point. Without the shared "bourgeois" values, as she calls it, makes succeeding very hard. I will also note that there may be other ways to solve this problem aside from sharing those values.

solotronics 9y ago
how do you change a social system without modifying its values? values lead to actions leads to change etc.
- rpiguy 9y ago
  The article is not arguing that values shouldn't change, just that empirically the new values we have chosen (single parenthood, self segregation, etc.) are producing inferior outcomes to the old bourgeois values. There is no argument as to whether there are other superior values to adopt, etc. There must be other paths forward but the article doesn't go there. You can in some instances enact major shifts in social systems without modifying its core values. Values and beliefs are two different things. For example giving women the right to vote was a major change, but didn't shift any of the classic core American values (to be trite, freedom, independence, etc.)