3 ms·
> a sense of wonder about the universe we find ourselves in If we have a sense of wonder about the universe or our planet, then what we should really do is rid
by bambax 9y ago
> a sense of wonder about the universe we find ourselves in
If we have a sense of wonder about the universe or our planet, then what we should really do is rid it of us, because all we have ever done is ruin it, make it hideous, inflict pain and destruction on it.
I have kids. My behavior is not consistent with my beliefs. In that I'm very human.
- blhack 9y agoRuin it and make it hideous by what measure of utility and beauty? Humanity is beautiful, and the things humanity creates are beautiful. In our solar system, or in the local group of stars, as far as I know, it's the humans who are making the things that are the most beautiful. There is a type of beauty in nature, but that beauty was based on a harmony. The mountains don't have an intention behind them. The art that humans make does. They're very different things, and the u universe would be at a loss if humans were not a part of it.
- Jaecen 9y agoI don't understand this point of view. My interpretation of it is that there is some idealized, perfect form of earth (and apparently the universe) that doesn't include humans. Everything in it is perfect except for the humans, which ruin and devalue it. What confounds me about this view is that humans are as much a product of the earth/universe as any other part of it. What is so unique about humanity in the universe that gives us the exclusive agency to tarnish it? Why are the products of humanity somehow excluded from the perfection of the other productions of the universe?
- bambax 9y agoExcellent questions. The issue is speciesism. Humanity wasn't a problem for most of its existence. But it has now started to consume every ressource, spread on every tiny bit of land, and exterminate every other form of life. If, as you say, humans are as much a product of the earth/universe as any other part of it, what is the justification for speciesism? What gives us the right to take everything for ourselves, kill and decimate other forms of life? The rate of the extinction of species that the earth is going through right now is unprecedented in all of earth's history, to say nothing of the torture we inflict on farm animals. And this is not an accident. We are doing it on purpose and we're proud of it; we call it "development", when the right word should be: destruction.
- Jaecen 9y agoSpeciesism is a new concept to me. Thank you for introducing me to it. Since you seem to be familiar with the concept and its application to the discussion at hand, perhaps you can clarify a point. Are humans, among the species on earth at least, uniquely capable of speciesism? Are rats or ants guilty of it too, to the extent that they exercise speciesism until they run up against limitations of their environment? Or is speciesism a moral ideal, similar to murder, meaning rats and ants can't be guilty of it because they can't reason and act with intent?
- sliverstorm 9y agoWhat if some worse, even more selfish, destructive & violent species were to rise up in our absence?
- bambax 9y agoStrange reasoning. By that logic you should steal and kill, only to prevent more efficient thieves or better skilled killers to do the same.