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Amount of usage is what's missing from the equation. Nearly everyone will use the road infrastructure - even indirectly (see: buses, groceries that are deliver

Amount of usage is what's missing from the equation. Nearly everyone will use the road infrastructure - even indirectly (see: buses, groceries that are delivered by truck), but users (theoretically - back to this part in a bit) have control over the amount of the infrastructure they use. The ideal argument is that by instituting tolls (or other similar per-use pricing), people will choose to be more efficient in their use of infrastructure, either by shifting modalities (see: taking the bus instead of driving), or shifting travel behavior (see: going to the store near you instead of driving two towns away). But, of course, this is a highly idealized model that doesn't account for negative impacts of tolling. For example, the poor tend to have disproportionately long commutes, and "consume" more road infrastructure as a result. Tolling negatively impacts this vulnerable group even more heavily than they already are impacted. Also, the idea that people who can't afford the tolls will switch to travel modes that lessen the burden (buses, trains, carpooling, etc) presumes the existence of competent alternative modalities. This is empirically false in (most of?) America. Proposals for extensive end-user tolling would be less problematic if the revenue can be guaranteed for developing alternate modes. As it stands the vast majority of such proposals I have seen simply institute a cost without offering anything resembling reasonable alternative modes.

oftenwrong 9y ago
>Tolling negatively impacts this vulnerable group even more heavily than they already are impacted. See Toll roads hurt the poor? https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/3/7/toll-roads-hurt-the-poor https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/3/7/toll-roads-hurt...
- potatolicious 9y ago
  To be clear - I'm not 100% opposed to tolling. Around here in NYC there is a plan by MoveNY to institute tolling on all East River bridges which I think is a great idea for raising revenue and reducing congestion. But the trick is that NYC has multiple competent alternative modes for people to fall back to - the train (both commuter and metro), as well as an extensive bus system - not to mention the ferry system. But more often than not tolling is proposed without reasonable alternative modes. The poor can take the bus instead of paying the toll - if the bus system was good enough to get them to work on time... If it serves their neighborhood at all. I'm not sure if the article you linked to is specifically in regards to a specific proposal in LA - I agree with its conclusions, but I don't think you can take a "tolls don't hurt the poor" conclusion from it. Heck, the very bottom of the article literally admits "Tolls may disproportionately burden the poor". Specifically, the UCLA graphic claims (IMO correctly) "tolling hurts less than a commensurate sales tax increase". This is absolutely correct - sales taxes are regressive and tend to impact low-income people much more than wealthy people. Tolling is the lesser of two evils here, but we can and should do better than just those two options. There are more ways to fund transport infrastructure than just tolls and sales taxes - property and income taxes, for one, which are progressive and do not have the disproportionate impact on low-income people. Property taxes in particular help the government realize the gains produced by infrastructure investment - a new transit center leads to rising property values, leading to more revenue that can be used to maintain or expand said infrastructure. In any case, I'm actually for tolling, but only if reasonable alternative modes are already in place. Unfortunately this means I'm against tolling in (most) parts of the US, because frankly alternative modes are either non-existent or so marginal that they are not reasonable fallbacks to driving.

oftenwrong 9y ago

>Tolling negatively impacts this vulnerable group even more heavily than they already are impacted. See Toll roads hurt the poor? https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/3/7/toll-roads-hurt-the-poor https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/3/7/toll-roads-hurt...

potatolicious 9y ago
To be clear - I'm not 100% opposed to tolling. Around here in NYC there is a plan by MoveNY to institute tolling on all East River bridges which I think is a great idea for raising revenue and reducing congestion. But the trick is that NYC has multiple competent alternative modes for people to fall back to - the train (both commuter and metro), as well as an extensive bus system - not to mention the ferry system. But more often than not tolling is proposed without reasonable alternative modes. The poor can take the bus instead of paying the toll - if the bus system was good enough to get them to work on time... If it serves their neighborhood at all. I'm not sure if the article you linked to is specifically in regards to a specific proposal in LA - I agree with its conclusions, but I don't think you can take a "tolls don't hurt the poor" conclusion from it. Heck, the very bottom of the article literally admits "Tolls may disproportionately burden the poor". Specifically, the UCLA graphic claims (IMO correctly) "tolling hurts less than a commensurate sales tax increase". This is absolutely correct - sales taxes are regressive and tend to impact low-income people much more than wealthy people. Tolling is the lesser of two evils here, but we can and should do better than just those two options. There are more ways to fund transport infrastructure than just tolls and sales taxes - property and income taxes, for one, which are progressive and do not have the disproportionate impact on low-income people. Property taxes in particular help the government realize the gains produced by infrastructure investment - a new transit center leads to rising property values, leading to more revenue that can be used to maintain or expand said infrastructure. In any case, I'm actually for tolling, but only if reasonable alternative modes are already in place. Unfortunately this means I'm against tolling in (most) parts of the US, because frankly alternative modes are either non-existent or so marginal that they are not reasonable fallbacks to driving.