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Buses and trains are. why should roads be purely subsidized? Why should free parking be subsidized. Car driving is massively subsidized and it has a hugely nega

Buses and trains are. why should roads be purely subsidized? Why should free parking be subsidized. Car driving is massively subsidized and it has a hugely negative impact on the environment, it's expensive, does not scale, and difficult to maintain. Reducing car use, and shifting to a transit and walking focused style of living is better on every front.

jessriedel 9y ago
Whether or not car driving is subsidized, it's incorrect to suggest that it's levied uniformly across the population. Gas tax makes up a very large fraction of public spending on roads. Also, although buses and trains charge per user, they are also heavily subsidized.
- Fricken 9y ago
  Busses are part of the public transportation infrastructure, just like roads, sidewalks, bridges and everything else. It's weird that they aren't fully subsidized.
  - hueving 9y ago
    But roads aren't fully subsidized. That's what the gas tax is for. Drivers of electric cars are currently free-riders, which is something that will have to be addressed if they become a significant fraction of drivers.
    - thatcat 9y ago
      Electric cars are technically still taxed on electricity, registration, and purchase. They shouldn't be taxed further until other cars are forced to pay the full cost of their effects including NOx and CO2.
      - hueving 9y ago
        Those taxes are not specifically for roads like the gas tax is.
    - Fricken 9y ago
      We will at some point have to do a total rethink of how we pay for roads.
shuntress 9y ago
>Buses and trains are. why should roads be purely subsidized? I believe my statement was quite clear. Public infrastructure should not be a la carte. "Buses and trains" are included in "Public Infrastructure". At least by my definition.
hueving 9y ago
>Buses and trains are. They are still subsidized (at least in the US). Almost all public transit in the US isn't self-sustaining based on its fares. The road tax in gasoline is similar. Additionally, most of the wear on roads comes from tractor trailers, which is why they are taxed additionally.
cr0sh 9y ago
> walking focused style of living is better on every front Try that in Phoenix, AZ in the middle of July @ 3pm - I'll even buy you a 2L Camelpak filled with ice water. Trust me, about an hour in you'll be begging for a car. Snark aside, the problem in the United States (especially in the southwest) is that our cities aren't set up for walking, nor do we have anywhere near adequate public transportation. That can't be changed overnight (heck, the Phoenix Metro area has only had light rail system for less than a decade); cities won't become magically walkable or bikeable (and I can't imagine Phoenix ever being this way in the summer, unless every employer installs showers for employee use). There's also the factor that many people (though the demographics seem to be shifting) see vehicles as more than a tool; they seem them as objects of self-expression - almost like a mechanical costume, in a way. There's also the fact that car affords you the ability to get to your destination on your own schedule, not someone else's. Plus, there's just the sheer joy of driving for driving's sake (sometimes, I like to drive my car just to drive it - no particular destination or reason, just because I like to drive - fancy that).

jessriedel 9y ago

Whether or not car driving is subsidized, it's incorrect to suggest that it's levied uniformly across the population. Gas tax makes up a very large fraction of public spending on roads. Also, although buses and trains charge per user, they are also heavily subsidized.

Fricken 9y ago
Busses are part of the public transportation infrastructure, just like roads, sidewalks, bridges and everything else. It's weird that they aren't fully subsidized.
- hueving 9y ago
  But roads aren't fully subsidized. That's what the gas tax is for. Drivers of electric cars are currently free-riders, which is something that will have to be addressed if they become a significant fraction of drivers.
  - thatcat 9y ago
    Electric cars are technically still taxed on electricity, registration, and purchase. They shouldn't be taxed further until other cars are forced to pay the full cost of their effects including NOx and CO2.
    - hueving 9y ago
      Those taxes are not specifically for roads like the gas tax is.
  - Fricken 9y ago
    We will at some point have to do a total rethink of how we pay for roads.

shuntress 9y ago

>Buses and trains are. why should roads be purely subsidized? I believe my statement was quite clear. Public infrastructure should not be a la carte. "Buses and trains" are included in "Public Infrastructure". At least by my definition.

hueving 9y ago

>Buses and trains are. They are still subsidized (at least in the US). Almost all public transit in the US isn't self-sustaining based on its fares. The road tax in gasoline is similar. Additionally, most of the wear on roads comes from tractor trailers, which is why they are taxed additionally.

cr0sh 9y ago

> walking focused style of living is better on every front Try that in Phoenix, AZ in the middle of July @ 3pm - I'll even buy you a 2L Camelpak filled with ice water. Trust me, about an hour in you'll be begging for a car. Snark aside, the problem in the United States (especially in the southwest) is that our cities aren't set up for walking, nor do we have anywhere near adequate public transportation. That can't be changed overnight (heck, the Phoenix Metro area has only had light rail system for less than a decade); cities won't become magically walkable or bikeable (and I can't imagine Phoenix ever being this way in the summer, unless every employer installs showers for employee use). There's also the factor that many people (though the demographics seem to be shifting) see vehicles as more than a tool; they seem them as objects of self-expression - almost like a mechanical costume, in a way. There's also the fact that car affords you the ability to get to your destination on your own schedule, not someone else's. Plus, there's just the sheer joy of driving for driving's sake (sometimes, I like to drive my car just to drive it - no particular destination or reason, just because I like to drive - fancy that).