4 ms·

Keep in mind that Americans live in a country where you can drive for hundreds of miles in any direction and still end up somewhere where English is spoken. We

by fnovd 9y ago

Keep in mind that Americans live in a country where you can drive for hundreds of miles in any direction and still end up somewhere where English is spoken. We can hop around from state to state and opportunity to opportunity without having to take the time to learn a new language. The US is not Europe.

Mediterraneo10 9y ago
Yours is a typical American reaction that suggests that others learn foreign languages only because they might have to communicate after driving a short distance. In fact, Europeans have been able for centuries to communicate with neighbouring countries in their own language or rudimentarily known lingua francas without having to expend effort of picking up a new language. And yet, they still often decide to learn a new languages because of cultural interest in that country (films, music). Mere intellectual curiosity is a driver for a lot of people, there is no reason that that can’t apply to the USA as well.
- jdcarter 9y ago
  Plenty of us do learn other languages purely out of curiosity. I've been studying Japanese for the last 9 months for that reason. However it's difficult to immerse myself in spoken Japanese because, where I live, I have to go out of my way to meet up with native speakers--that's the point the parent poster was making.
  - Mediterraneo10 9y ago
    > Where I live, I have to go out of my way to meet up with native speakers--that's the point the parent poster was making. The point would still be wrong. Plenty of people learn a foreign language without the ability to have much contact with native speakers. Eastern Europeans have been keen on picking up Latin American Spanish, but it’s mostly watching telenovelas or falling in love with music from there, not actually going to Latin America. People learn all kinds of foreign languages from all the way across Europe, with the only actual interaction with native speakers being maybe a holiday once a year or less. A lot of language learning plays out through exposure to media, and with the internet, Americans have no less access to media than Europeans (or, as another person here notes, East Asians).
    - HarryHirsch 9y ago
      Indeed. People learn Latin, of which there are preciously few speakers.
    - soundwave106 9y ago
      But you have to be motivated to learn the language. Set aside the people who love learning for learning's sake (which is not everyone). With English being the default world language, and American media outside the Internet also typically in English, well, the motivation to learn a language probably isn't quite as strong here. The biggest advantage here would come from picking up Spanish. Live in a place with large Hispanic populations and you'll find plenty of media over here in Spanish in certain locations. It actually wouldn't be too difficult to immerse yourself somewhat. It's not surprising therefore that the greatest percentage of American bilingual speakers have Spanish as their other language (http://www.gallup.com/poll/1825/about-one-four-americans-can-hold-conversation-second-language.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/1825/about-one-four-americans-can...). I agree that media exposure can play a huge motivation. However, at least in the past, mainstream media in the United States was almost always originally in English. To use one example, in many other nations, foreign languages (English for sure at least) appear in pop radio hits constantly. In American pop music, in contrast, foreign languages rarely appear -- when present, they usually were one hit wonders, eg your "Sukiyaka", "99 Luftballoons", and "Amadeus" type songs. Obviously there are a few exceptions even "just outside" that mainstream circle (example: Rammstein) but "the norm" of US pop radio in the past was pretty much 99% English. I do wonder if this will change a little. I am hearing more foreign language lyrics in American pop songs (mostly Spanish); some foreign media forms seem at least cult popular (anime is an example of a foreign medium with a decent sized American subculture); and as you point out, the Internet allows access to far more media forms than you could get previously.
- Karrot_Kream 9y ago
  I'm guessing the OP is being downvoted, but I'm not sure why. OP is right. Even in East Asia, plenty of people learn Japanese to watch anime, Chinese to enjoy Chinese classics, medieval stories, CPop, Korean for KPop, etc, etc. South Asia has a very rich intellectual tradition in dozens of languages, and a thriving (albeit scrappy) industry of film in local languages. Don't forget the time-honored trope of learning English through Hollywood movies. America is unique in that it has created a culture that doesn't connect with the outside world at all. American sports are American, American TV shows are American, American movies come from Hollywood. It makes being multilingual in America a much rarer feat.
  - ericd 9y ago
    Do you know if multilingualism is more common in England, Australia, or New Zealand? I've got the (maybe mistaken) impression that it's just not valued as highly in the English Commonwealth as in other countries.
    - hnzix 9y ago
      Australian middle schools almost always teach a foreign language, the problem is that it's more or less random - Japanese, French, Italian and Indonesian are pretty common. Depending on the school you can elect to keep studying a language in high school, and the subject weighting is quite favourable towards your final College entry rank. But most people graduate with minimal retention.
      - ericd 9y ago
        US schools are the same way, albeit usually with a focus on French or Spanish. I'm wondering more about the culture - there doesn't seem to be the same culture of language learning that I hear about from Europeans.
        hnzix 9y ago
        I would say language learning is treated as a hobby, like painting or salsa dancing. It's certainly not part of the cultural DNA.
- ericd 9y ago
  It might also be that your culture values that heavily as a good thing for its own sake, whereas ours doesn't as much? My impression is that the English Commonwealth countries don't place much value on language learning (I could certainly be wrong on that front).
- pasquinelli 9y ago
  plenty of people do try to learn a second language. that's why apps like duolingo are popular. but language is a medium for exchange, and if you have no one to practice with i don't think you'll really get it. of course, i only speak english myself. you would really trust yourself to translate a film after picking up a language without ever speaking it with anyone?
  - Mediterraneo10 9y ago
    > you would really trust yourself to translate a film after picking up a language without ever speaking it with anyone? Sure, this is completely normal. For example, coastal Albanians tend to understand Italian films, television and radio quite well just from exposure to Italian-language broadcasting, even if they never actually interact with Italians. And as I mentioned elsewhere, for a lot of people who learn to understand Spanish media, it all happens through telenovelas, not time spent with actual Latin American people. Over the last year, I have been studying Serbian and Albanian without much interaction at all with speakers, and I am already at the point where I can enjoy many films and television programmes – sure, I might have to occasionally pause the video and rewind it or look up a word in the dictionary, but the learning and reference materials I have at my disposal are completely sufficient for that, there is no need to actually speak with anyone.
oh_sigh 9y ago
Also, english being pretty much the defacto world language doesn't help matters. If you only speak Dutch, you can only talk to 23M people. If you only speak English you can only talk to....2B people?

by fnovd 9y ago

Mediterraneo10 9y ago

Yours is a typical American reaction that suggests that others learn foreign languages only because they might have to communicate after driving a short distance. In fact, Europeans have been able for centuries to communicate with neighbouring countries in their own language or rudimentarily known lingua francas without having to expend effort of picking up a new language. And yet, they still often decide to learn a new languages because of cultural interest in that country (films, music). Mere intellectual curiosity is a driver for a lot of people, there is no reason that that can’t apply to the USA as well.

jdcarter 9y ago
Plenty of us do learn other languages purely out of curiosity. I've been studying Japanese for the last 9 months for that reason. However it's difficult to immerse myself in spoken Japanese because, where I live, I have to go out of my way to meet up with native speakers--that's the point the parent poster was making.
- Mediterraneo10 9y ago
  > Where I live, I have to go out of my way to meet up with native speakers--that's the point the parent poster was making. The point would still be wrong. Plenty of people learn a foreign language without the ability to have much contact with native speakers. Eastern Europeans have been keen on picking up Latin American Spanish, but it’s mostly watching telenovelas or falling in love with music from there, not actually going to Latin America. People learn all kinds of foreign languages from all the way across Europe, with the only actual interaction with native speakers being maybe a holiday once a year or less. A lot of language learning plays out through exposure to media, and with the internet, Americans have no less access to media than Europeans (or, as another person here notes, East Asians).
  - HarryHirsch 9y ago
    Indeed. People learn Latin, of which there are preciously few speakers.
  - soundwave106 9y ago
    But you have to be motivated to learn the language. Set aside the people who love learning for learning's sake (which is not everyone). With English being the default world language, and American media outside the Internet also typically in English, well, the motivation to learn a language probably isn't quite as strong here. The biggest advantage here would come from picking up Spanish. Live in a place with large Hispanic populations and you'll find plenty of media over here in Spanish in certain locations. It actually wouldn't be too difficult to immerse yourself somewhat. It's not surprising therefore that the greatest percentage of American bilingual speakers have Spanish as their other language (http://www.gallup.com/poll/1825/about-one-four-americans-can-hold-conversation-second-language.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/1825/about-one-four-americans-can...). I agree that media exposure can play a huge motivation. However, at least in the past, mainstream media in the United States was almost always originally in English. To use one example, in many other nations, foreign languages (English for sure at least) appear in pop radio hits constantly. In American pop music, in contrast, foreign languages rarely appear -- when present, they usually were one hit wonders, eg your "Sukiyaka", "99 Luftballoons", and "Amadeus" type songs. Obviously there are a few exceptions even "just outside" that mainstream circle (example: Rammstein) but "the norm" of US pop radio in the past was pretty much 99% English. I do wonder if this will change a little. I am hearing more foreign language lyrics in American pop songs (mostly Spanish); some foreign media forms seem at least cult popular (anime is an example of a foreign medium with a decent sized American subculture); and as you point out, the Internet allows access to far more media forms than you could get previously.
Karrot_Kream 9y ago
I'm guessing the OP is being downvoted, but I'm not sure why. OP is right. Even in East Asia, plenty of people learn Japanese to watch anime, Chinese to enjoy Chinese classics, medieval stories, CPop, Korean for KPop, etc, etc. South Asia has a very rich intellectual tradition in dozens of languages, and a thriving (albeit scrappy) industry of film in local languages. Don't forget the time-honored trope of learning English through Hollywood movies. America is unique in that it has created a culture that doesn't connect with the outside world at all. American sports are American, American TV shows are American, American movies come from Hollywood. It makes being multilingual in America a much rarer feat.
- ericd 9y ago
  Do you know if multilingualism is more common in England, Australia, or New Zealand? I've got the (maybe mistaken) impression that it's just not valued as highly in the English Commonwealth as in other countries.
  - hnzix 9y ago
    Australian middle schools almost always teach a foreign language, the problem is that it's more or less random - Japanese, French, Italian and Indonesian are pretty common. Depending on the school you can elect to keep studying a language in high school, and the subject weighting is quite favourable towards your final College entry rank. But most people graduate with minimal retention.
    - ericd 9y ago
      US schools are the same way, albeit usually with a focus on French or Spanish. I'm wondering more about the culture - there doesn't seem to be the same culture of language learning that I hear about from Europeans.
      - hnzix 9y ago
        I would say language learning is treated as a hobby, like painting or salsa dancing. It's certainly not part of the cultural DNA.
ericd 9y ago
It might also be that your culture values that heavily as a good thing for its own sake, whereas ours doesn't as much? My impression is that the English Commonwealth countries don't place much value on language learning (I could certainly be wrong on that front).
pasquinelli 9y ago
plenty of people do try to learn a second language. that's why apps like duolingo are popular. but language is a medium for exchange, and if you have no one to practice with i don't think you'll really get it. of course, i only speak english myself. you would really trust yourself to translate a film after picking up a language without ever speaking it with anyone?
- Mediterraneo10 9y ago
  > you would really trust yourself to translate a film after picking up a language without ever speaking it with anyone? Sure, this is completely normal. For example, coastal Albanians tend to understand Italian films, television and radio quite well just from exposure to Italian-language broadcasting, even if they never actually interact with Italians. And as I mentioned elsewhere, for a lot of people who learn to understand Spanish media, it all happens through telenovelas, not time spent with actual Latin American people. Over the last year, I have been studying Serbian and Albanian without much interaction at all with speakers, and I am already at the point where I can enjoy many films and television programmes – sure, I might have to occasionally pause the video and rewind it or look up a word in the dictionary, but the learning and reference materials I have at my disposal are completely sufficient for that, there is no need to actually speak with anyone.

oh_sigh 9y ago

Also, english being pretty much the defacto world language doesn't help matters. If you only speak Dutch, you can only talk to 23M people. If you only speak English you can only talk to....2B people?