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Im working in automatization. So no! Im a wrecking ball to societys foundation, im taking peoples jobs away or prevent those from existing in the first place.

Im working in automatization. So no! Im a wrecking ball to societys foundation, im taking peoples jobs away or prevent those from existing in the first place. I secretly wish this whole Ponzi scheme would come crashing down to bury this nightmare. I wish i could dress up in some delusional ideology, like others can, that this is for some greater good and 72 virgins after the singularity hits, but logic, that cruel mistress wont allow those too last.

HD134606c 9y ago
* 256 virgins
samueloph 9y ago
Automatization is one of the best contribution to society that can exit, i can't wait to live in a world where we all acknowledge that not everyone needs to work and we can focus on really important things like NOT reinventing the wheel and spend life on useless jobs. That is at least if everything (or almost) goes as planned and things like universal income become a reality. Also, i thought everyone from hackernews thought this.
- crispyambulance 9y ago
  > I can't wait to live in a world where we all acknowledge... Why do you think "we" (as a world) will all acknowledge anything together? If anything, the current trajectory of automation is leading to an intensification of the difference between have's vs have-not's. Many powerful people in the "have's" group WANT this, they want another gilded age where you have fantastically wealthy people and serfs. UBI isn't a given and making it a reality is going to get ugly even if it succeeds.
- logfromblammo 9y ago
  The benefits from automation still exist, even if currently the only way to realize them at scale is to steal from the rich robot owners. Thus, working to increase automation is still useful, because it is likely that we will soon either tax the owners of automated capital more, or economically disenfranchised people will have a bloody revolution, and the new owners of the automated capital will be slightly more inclined to voluntarily share for the next 70 years or so. The end result is that mopping floors and cleaning toilets becomes a robot job, and no human anywhere does it, freeing them up for tasks that actually require human brainpower. I think everyone needs to work, but the BS jobs we have been inventing are not fit for that purpose. Everyone needs to do a thing that is productive by the loosest definition and makes them happy. Like jarring your own pickles. Or making an online comic with stick figures. Or domesticating foxes. When freed of the requirement that people have to do work to perform certain critical functions that keep civilization running, like growing food and paving roads, people can instead put more effort into things that are niche interests. It might be playing video games for 12 hours a day. That's okay. You don't need that guy to raise chickens for your dinner. But you might need him later, when you decide to spend 4 hours every week to play a video game, and you don't want to waste your time on one that is not fun, or too deep for that level of time commitment. That guy will soon become an subject matter expert on video games, and you can trust him to blow away the chaff, because he loves video games. Some people still do the niche stuff even after working 40 hours or more in a week. If you think about what they can do in their leisure time, just imagine what they would accomplish if their hobby was their full time job.
fhood 9y ago
Haha, you think that's bad?!?! You are moving society forwards enabling faster and faster technological growth. I, however, make software for market speculators. The greater good doesn't even know I exist.
lucideer 9y ago
> I secretly wish this whole Ponzi scheme would come crashing down to bury this nightmare. > I wish i could dress up in some delusional ideology Sounds a little like Accelerationism[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism
bbctol 9y ago
Automation, making it take less work to achieve things, is as close to an inherent good as I can imagine. A political and economic system that turns automation into something that harms people is bad.
dx034 9y ago
If this time is not completely different, automating jobs will have positive benefits for all, esp those working in jobs automated away. Automation has happened continuously since the 1800s and new machines were always feared to take away many jobs (or earlier, e.g. by the mechanical knitting machine in ~1589). Looking at datasets of popular jobs from just a century ago it's amazing to see how many of those ceased to exist and how little we miss them. I'm sure most of the jobs to be automated away are not "dream jobs" that people will miss thoroughly. Not to say that it doesn't bear risks but there's currently no indication that this time jobs wouldn't be replaced by something better. Just because many think so doesn't make it true, Keynes also firmly believed in the 1930s that we would run out of work and yet I cannot see that anywhere.
- Retric 9y ago
  % of population working has declined significantly since 1600. Right now we are under 2/5 of the US population (~38.8%) is working a 35+ hour a week job. So, I suspect they have been costing jobs. Society has simply shifted to use a lower percentage of peoples time vs. having large numbers of people never work. However, unless we start reducing the retirement age down to late 40's or other very large scale changes that's only going to keep working for so long.
  - dx034 9y ago
    And we will probably continue to do so. Life expectancy in many countries is likely to rise so that further automation can help to keep the retirement age. Most people in Europe today retire at around the same age as 100 years ago (~65) while living much longer. But still, we don't see joblessness or masses of people unqualified for the market. Faster developments will lead to many having 3-5 careers over their life time but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
    - Retric 9y ago
      What's different this time is rather than replacing physical effort we are replacing judgement. Automated checkout lines, self driving cars etc are attacking the kind of jobs you can train people to do. It's true we are creating more jobs, but mostly by having people do things that are low priority and thus low paying. There might be unlimited demand for service jobs like raft guides, but they pay crap because they compete with things like video games.
bmomb 9y ago
This old reply share the same opinion as you. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13696161 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13696161 Maybe you are moving society to an cyberpunk dystopia, but who knows what you come after that? Maybe after some time this 'new society' stabilize and the world(s) will be a better place.

HD134606c 9y ago

* 256 virgins

samueloph 9y ago

Automatization is one of the best contribution to society that can exit, i can't wait to live in a world where we all acknowledge that not everyone needs to work and we can focus on really important things like NOT reinventing the wheel and spend life on useless jobs. That is at least if everything (or almost) goes as planned and things like universal income become a reality. Also, i thought everyone from hackernews thought this.

crispyambulance 9y ago
> I can't wait to live in a world where we all acknowledge... Why do you think "we" (as a world) will all acknowledge anything together? If anything, the current trajectory of automation is leading to an intensification of the difference between have's vs have-not's. Many powerful people in the "have's" group WANT this, they want another gilded age where you have fantastically wealthy people and serfs. UBI isn't a given and making it a reality is going to get ugly even if it succeeds.
logfromblammo 9y ago
The benefits from automation still exist, even if currently the only way to realize them at scale is to steal from the rich robot owners. Thus, working to increase automation is still useful, because it is likely that we will soon either tax the owners of automated capital more, or economically disenfranchised people will have a bloody revolution, and the new owners of the automated capital will be slightly more inclined to voluntarily share for the next 70 years or so. The end result is that mopping floors and cleaning toilets becomes a robot job, and no human anywhere does it, freeing them up for tasks that actually require human brainpower. I think everyone needs to work, but the BS jobs we have been inventing are not fit for that purpose. Everyone needs to do a thing that is productive by the loosest definition and makes them happy. Like jarring your own pickles. Or making an online comic with stick figures. Or domesticating foxes. When freed of the requirement that people have to do work to perform certain critical functions that keep civilization running, like growing food and paving roads, people can instead put more effort into things that are niche interests. It might be playing video games for 12 hours a day. That's okay. You don't need that guy to raise chickens for your dinner. But you might need him later, when you decide to spend 4 hours every week to play a video game, and you don't want to waste your time on one that is not fun, or too deep for that level of time commitment. That guy will soon become an subject matter expert on video games, and you can trust him to blow away the chaff, because he loves video games. Some people still do the niche stuff even after working 40 hours or more in a week. If you think about what they can do in their leisure time, just imagine what they would accomplish if their hobby was their full time job.

fhood 9y ago

Haha, you think that's bad?!?! You are moving society forwards enabling faster and faster technological growth. I, however, make software for market speculators. The greater good doesn't even know I exist.

lucideer 9y ago

> I secretly wish this whole Ponzi scheme would come crashing down to bury this nightmare. > I wish i could dress up in some delusional ideology Sounds a little like Accelerationism[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism

bbctol 9y ago

Automation, making it take less work to achieve things, is as close to an inherent good as I can imagine. A political and economic system that turns automation into something that harms people is bad.

dx034 9y ago

If this time is not completely different, automating jobs will have positive benefits for all, esp those working in jobs automated away. Automation has happened continuously since the 1800s and new machines were always feared to take away many jobs (or earlier, e.g. by the mechanical knitting machine in ~1589). Looking at datasets of popular jobs from just a century ago it's amazing to see how many of those ceased to exist and how little we miss them. I'm sure most of the jobs to be automated away are not "dream jobs" that people will miss thoroughly. Not to say that it doesn't bear risks but there's currently no indication that this time jobs wouldn't be replaced by something better. Just because many think so doesn't make it true, Keynes also firmly believed in the 1930s that we would run out of work and yet I cannot see that anywhere.

Retric 9y ago
% of population working has declined significantly since 1600. Right now we are under 2/5 of the US population (~38.8%) is working a 35+ hour a week job. So, I suspect they have been costing jobs. Society has simply shifted to use a lower percentage of peoples time vs. having large numbers of people never work. However, unless we start reducing the retirement age down to late 40's or other very large scale changes that's only going to keep working for so long.
- dx034 9y ago
  And we will probably continue to do so. Life expectancy in many countries is likely to rise so that further automation can help to keep the retirement age. Most people in Europe today retire at around the same age as 100 years ago (~65) while living much longer. But still, we don't see joblessness or masses of people unqualified for the market. Faster developments will lead to many having 3-5 careers over their life time but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
  - Retric 9y ago
    What's different this time is rather than replacing physical effort we are replacing judgement. Automated checkout lines, self driving cars etc are attacking the kind of jobs you can train people to do. It's true we are creating more jobs, but mostly by having people do things that are low priority and thus low paying. There might be unlimited demand for service jobs like raft guides, but they pay crap because they compete with things like video games.

bmomb 9y ago

This old reply share the same opinion as you. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13696161 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13696161 Maybe you are moving society to an cyberpunk dystopia, but who knows what you come after that? Maybe after some time this 'new society' stabilize and the world(s) will be a better place.