4 ms·

>"I could make the same point about children, FWIW. Most children are rowdy annoying and don't keep to themselves even after being instructed to do so by their

>"I could make the same point about children, FWIW. Most children are rowdy annoying and don't keep to themselves even after being instructed to do so by their owners. Should children be banned from all restaurants?" If children are misbehaving a parent can speak to them sternly and discipline them in a language they are able understand. And often times a parent will take a child outside until they calm down. Have you ever watched the futility and absurdity of a dog owner tell a dog to stop barking?

smcl 9y ago
Wait - we're talking about dogs barking in restaurants? If this happens (I have literally never seen it) it certainly happens less often than babies crying. I've seen people successfully halt their dog from barking outside (by issuing commands, or a tap on the nose) and I have watched (with deepest sympathy - I don't begrudge it at all, some day it'll be me) the futility of some parents trying to calm a screaming kid. If someone doesn't like dogs in restaurants on the basis of hygeine or allergies then I understand, but noise would be a really weird reason.
- bogomipz 9y ago
  >"Wait - we're talking about dogs barking in restaurants? If this happens (I have literally never seen it) it certainly happens less often than babies crying." Yes for example, almost anywhere where there is al fresco seating in New York City will have dogs owners who bring their dogs along and invariably one of those dogs will start barking as there's shortage of stimulus. It is not at all uncommon. see: https://www.bringfido.com/restaurant/city/new_york_ny_us/ https://www.bringfido.com/restaurant/city/new_york_ny_us/
askvictor 9y ago
In both cases (dogs and children), it relies on the grown up giving a shit (or at the very least being aware of their surroundings and context), _and_ having the skills to deal with the dog/child. The latter point requires a lot of ground work (training) to have been established over the years. Yes, it is possible to tell a dog to stop barking, sometimes it's easier than telling a child to stop yelling.I speak as both a parent and dog owner.
croon 9y ago
I can unequivocally state, with no hesitation at all, that a dog owner can and should be able to tell their dog to be quiet in less than 1 second. If you can't, you shouldn't be a dog owner. Children have much more personality. I am of the belief that this should be the case with kids too with proper parenting, but I've seen what I think is good parents with misbehaving kids and vice versa, and I'm not a parent (yet), so there I'm less sure. I've definitely witnessed the futility in arguing with tiny humans, but never with dogs. Dogs are happily subservient.
- WkndTriathlete 9y ago
  > Children have much more personality. I am of the belief that this should be the case with kids too with proper parenting, Agreed, but the key word here is "eventually." Humans are more complex and seem to require more reinforcement learning in some behaviors. Sometimes there's just no quick calming down a three-year-old despite best efforts.

smcl 9y ago

Wait - we're talking about dogs barking in restaurants? If this happens (I have literally never seen it) it certainly happens less often than babies crying. I've seen people successfully halt their dog from barking outside (by issuing commands, or a tap on the nose) and I have watched (with deepest sympathy - I don't begrudge it at all, some day it'll be me) the futility of some parents trying to calm a screaming kid. If someone doesn't like dogs in restaurants on the basis of hygeine or allergies then I understand, but noise would be a really weird reason.

bogomipz 9y ago
>"Wait - we're talking about dogs barking in restaurants? If this happens (I have literally never seen it) it certainly happens less often than babies crying." Yes for example, almost anywhere where there is al fresco seating in New York City will have dogs owners who bring their dogs along and invariably one of those dogs will start barking as there's shortage of stimulus. It is not at all uncommon. see: https://www.bringfido.com/restaurant/city/new_york_ny_us/ https://www.bringfido.com/restaurant/city/new_york_ny_us/

askvictor 9y ago

In both cases (dogs and children), it relies on the grown up giving a shit (or at the very least being aware of their surroundings and context), _and_ having the skills to deal with the dog/child. The latter point requires a lot of ground work (training) to have been established over the years. Yes, it is possible to tell a dog to stop barking, sometimes it's easier than telling a child to stop yelling.I speak as both a parent and dog owner.

croon 9y ago

I can unequivocally state, with no hesitation at all, that a dog owner can and should be able to tell their dog to be quiet in less than 1 second. If you can't, you shouldn't be a dog owner. Children have much more personality. I am of the belief that this should be the case with kids too with proper parenting, but I've seen what I think is good parents with misbehaving kids and vice versa, and I'm not a parent (yet), so there I'm less sure. I've definitely witnessed the futility in arguing with tiny humans, but never with dogs. Dogs are happily subservient.

WkndTriathlete 9y ago
> Children have much more personality. I am of the belief that this should be the case with kids too with proper parenting, Agreed, but the key word here is "eventually." Humans are more complex and seem to require more reinforcement learning in some behaviors. Sometimes there's just no quick calming down a three-year-old despite best efforts.