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> Sounds like something that should be backed up Why? People state their opinions and experiences on HN all the time without such a requirement.

by Chris2048 9y ago

falsedan 9y ago
Because this one vilifies a large group of people based on their political preferences; and politics is basically a battle to see whose opinion will be reflected in reality. "language X is better than Y" is an opinion we accept at face value without sources, since it doesn't affect users of language Y, and has limited impact if it's wrong. Comparing a political stance to a disease does affect the users (implies they're 'sick' and need treatment) and has a big impact if it's wrong (and the non-leftism policies get put into place). Compare "Perl is better than PHP" to "PHP is the brain tumor of server-side web languages". Plus: there's no indication of which policies have caused this situation, so it's presumptuous to claim they're caused by leftism.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  > vilifies a large group of people based on their political preferences If I say Marxism is evil, aren't I also vilifying subscribers to that philosophy? That's fine, since it's a choice; both to take ideological criticisms personally, and to subscribe to it in the first place. > Comparing a political stance to a disease does affect the users I can't see how.
  - falsedan 9y ago
    > If I say Marxism is evil, aren't I also vilifying subscribers to that philosophy? Yes, and I would not be surprised to see people challenging that statement/asking for facts. > > Comparing a political stance to a disease does affect the users > I can't see how. See my example from the post you quoted. Does it make sense? Try to put yourself in the shoes of a professional, successful PHP programmer who is aware of the advantages and disadvantages of the language & is comfortable weighing up the various trade-offs.
    - Chris2048 9y ago
      > I would not be surprised to see people challenging that statement/asking for facts. Then we disagree. I distinguish ideology from person. > Try to put yourself in the shoes of a professional, successful PHP programmer I'd say that programmer has too much of their ego invested in their choice of language. The question is not of being merely unhappy about criticism, but being personally affected. Would you happily say the same wrt criticism of a belief in flat-earth?
      - falsedan 9y ago
        > I distinguish ideology from person So do I? Bit of a non-sequitur… > Would you happily say the same wrt criticism of a belief in flat-earth? Happily? What a loaded question. Would I expect a flat-earther to respond to claims which criticized their point-of-view by requesting evidence? Yes I would. edit > The question is not of being merely unhappy about criticism, but being personally affected. People are affected by criticism simply by receiving it. Feeling unhappy because of criticism is being personally affected. Words can harm and kill.
        Chris2048 9y ago
        > So do I? Do you? you said you agree that "X is evil" villifies subscribers that philosophy. > Feeling unhappy because of criticism is being personally affected Not really, there is a difference between "I am a bad person" and "I subscribe to a bad ideology". The difference is you can un-subscribe if persuaded. > Words can harm and kill that's a non-sequitur..
        falsedan 9y ago
        You seem more interested in scoring points than in a genuine discussion. > Do you? you said you agree that "X is evil" villifies subscribers that philosophy. It does. That's what those words mean. I didn't say I would find them evil (which is what you're claiming I meant). You haven't asked me how I feel about any particular economical-political theory. Is there something I could say that would cause you to reconsider your stance? If there is not, then please consider if this is the most productive use of your time.
vletal 9y ago
Reference to some comments which back this claim up?
dagw 9y ago
Why? People state their opinions and experiences on HN all the time without such a requirement. Because we're literally talking about an article about how fact-free policies are a bad thing.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  That's the opinion of the article, yes. What has that got to do with HN?

> Sounds like something that should be backed up Why? People state their opinions and experiences on HN all the time without such a requirement.

falsedan 9y ago

Because this one vilifies a large group of people based on their political preferences; and politics is basically a battle to see whose opinion will be reflected in reality. "language X is better than Y" is an opinion we accept at face value without sources, since it doesn't affect users of language Y, and has limited impact if it's wrong. Comparing a political stance to a disease does affect the users (implies they're 'sick' and need treatment) and has a big impact if it's wrong (and the non-leftism policies get put into place). Compare "Perl is better than PHP" to "PHP is the brain tumor of server-side web languages". Plus: there's no indication of which policies have caused this situation, so it's presumptuous to claim they're caused by leftism.

Chris2048 9y ago
> vilifies a large group of people based on their political preferences If I say Marxism is evil, aren't I also vilifying subscribers to that philosophy? That's fine, since it's a choice; both to take ideological criticisms personally, and to subscribe to it in the first place. > Comparing a political stance to a disease does affect the users I can't see how.
- falsedan 9y ago
  > If I say Marxism is evil, aren't I also vilifying subscribers to that philosophy? Yes, and I would not be surprised to see people challenging that statement/asking for facts. > > Comparing a political stance to a disease does affect the users > I can't see how. See my example from the post you quoted. Does it make sense? Try to put yourself in the shoes of a professional, successful PHP programmer who is aware of the advantages and disadvantages of the language & is comfortable weighing up the various trade-offs.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    > I would not be surprised to see people challenging that statement/asking for facts. Then we disagree. I distinguish ideology from person. > Try to put yourself in the shoes of a professional, successful PHP programmer I'd say that programmer has too much of their ego invested in their choice of language. The question is not of being merely unhappy about criticism, but being personally affected. Would you happily say the same wrt criticism of a belief in flat-earth?
    - falsedan 9y ago
      > I distinguish ideology from person So do I? Bit of a non-sequitur… > Would you happily say the same wrt criticism of a belief in flat-earth? Happily? What a loaded question. Would I expect a flat-earther to respond to claims which criticized their point-of-view by requesting evidence? Yes I would. edit > The question is not of being merely unhappy about criticism, but being personally affected. People are affected by criticism simply by receiving it. Feeling unhappy because of criticism is being personally affected. Words can harm and kill.
      - Chris2048 9y ago
        > So do I? Do you? you said you agree that "X is evil" villifies subscribers that philosophy. > Feeling unhappy because of criticism is being personally affected Not really, there is a difference between "I am a bad person" and "I subscribe to a bad ideology". The difference is you can un-subscribe if persuaded. > Words can harm and kill that's a non-sequitur..
        falsedan 9y ago
        You seem more interested in scoring points than in a genuine discussion. > Do you? you said you agree that "X is evil" villifies subscribers that philosophy. It does. That's what those words mean. I didn't say I would find them evil (which is what you're claiming I meant). You haven't asked me how I feel about any particular economical-political theory. Is there something I could say that would cause you to reconsider your stance? If there is not, then please consider if this is the most productive use of your time.

vletal 9y ago

Reference to some comments which back this claim up?

dagw 9y ago

Why? People state their opinions and experiences on HN all the time without such a requirement. Because we're literally talking about an article about how fact-free policies are a bad thing.

Chris2048 9y ago
That's the opinion of the article, yes. What has that got to do with HN?