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My ex had narcolepsy and had a service dog to help her. She (the service dog) did a number of things for her including detecting and alerting her to an oncoming

My ex had narcolepsy and had a service dog to help her. She (the service dog) did a number of things for her including detecting and alerting her to an oncoming cataplectic attack, giving her a little extra time to get somewhere safe. Her training was extensive and very expensive and she was incredibly well behaved. She was a ten pound miniature poodle though (my ex was allergic to dogs and poodles are naturally somewhat hypoallergenic (also very smart)) so she faced a lot of skepticism. Seeing what she went through on a regular basis, the fake service dog trend that's arisen since has really annoyed me. On another note, I've been living in Europe and the UK for the last few years and one of the interesting cultural differences I've noticed is how common it is over here to just allow dogs in restaurants and pubs and on public transportation. That seems to be the default and only some places have "no dogs allowed" signs up. If the US would take a similar approach, maybe people wouldn't feel the need to fake service animal status.

NhanH 9y ago
Just for a counter viewpoint, I have lived in Asia for most of my life and the US in the last couple of years. I greatly appreciate the fact that dogs and pets are not allowed by default in certain places in the US. Regardless of how smart you think a dog is, most of them are barely, if ever, trained.
- config_yml 9y ago
  Is dog training not mandatory in the US?
  - sokoloff 9y ago
    Almost nothing is mandatory in the US. ;) Dog training is certainly not mandatory (at least in any place in the US I've lived).
    - croon 9y ago
      Indeed. Which is a fair ideal. Legally mandated contracts aren't necessary, as long as social contracts are honored. Unfortunately the "complete freedom" usually amounts to complete freedom of personal responsibility.
      - sokoloff 9y ago
        > Unfortunately the "complete freedom" usually amounts to complete freedom of personal responsibility. Usually is far too strong an estimate there, IME. What you are observing I agree is a problem, but a problem caused by a relatively small minority of selfish (or oblivious) assholes.
        croon 9y ago
        You are of course right, it's an exaggeration I shouldn't make, but it is something I've increasingly noted.
- Boothroid 9y ago
  It sounds like you have a cultural prejudice towards dogs.
kelnos 9y ago
As someone who is allergic to dogs, I appreciate that they're not permitted in many places in the US (especially restaurants). Actual service animals, as you point out, are incredibly well behaved, but I've definitely been subject to a fake service animal jumping at my lap while seated at a restaurant. Not my favorite thing in the world. If people would actually train their dogs not to be disruptive, I'd mind less. But in my experience, most dogs are rowdy, annoying, and don't keep to themselves even after being instructed to do so by their owners.
- maccard 9y ago
  I live in Edinburgh - practically every bar here allows dogs. To give an anecdote against your anecdote, I can't think of one occasion where a dog in a bar was behaving any way less than perfect. Most of them curl up under the table, and come out when someone walks by and rubs them. I could make the same point about children, FWIW. Most children are rowdy annoying and don't keep to themselves even after being instructed to do so by their owners. Should children be banned from all restaurants?
  - cabalamat 9y ago
    > I live in Edinburgh - practically every bar here allows dogs. To give an anecdote against your anecdote, I can't think of one occasion where a dog in a bar was behaving any way less than perfect. Most of them curl up under the table, and come out when someone walks by and rubs them. I also live in Edinburgh, and my experience is the same as maccard's.
  - seanp2k2 9y ago
    They are banned from some: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/food/wp/2017/03/31/thank-you-for-taking-a-stand-customers-flock-after-upscale-restaurant-bans-kids/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/food/wp/2017/03/31/thank... There are more than 1 million restaurants in the United States and the majority of them welcome families with children. So much this. Kids won't appreciate the wine pairing. Reservations increased. I'd love more options for 21 dining, and I'm obviously not alone in this. I really don't understand the outage at establishments which choose to enforce these types of rules when there are so many other places to go.
deleted 9y ago
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taejo 9y ago
> I've noticed is how common it is over here to just allow dogs in restaurants and pubs and on public transportation. That seems to be the default and only some places have "no dogs allowed" signs up. If the US would take a similar approach, maybe people wouldn't feel the need to fake service animal status. A culture of allowing dogs in these places needs to go hand in hand with a culture of training dogs extremely well (and not taking advantage of the facilities that allow dogs, if you don't manage to train yours). Dogs in Germany are almost a different species to those in some other countries; the number of times I've heard dogs barking in the last year could very possibly be counted on one finger, despite seeing many more dogs than in other places. I don't think this would fly in the US, where cultural attitudes tend to be less "we've all got to do our bit to make society pleasant for everyone" and more "it's a free country and this is my dog, I'll train it if I want to".
- BrandoElFollito 9y ago
  Same in France. For all the dogs around me, humans seem invisble. At least until you explicitly let the dog, at which point he look s at you as if christmas came early. An hour ago I was walking back home from a restaurant and a dog looked at me, well until I realized that there was a bird or something behind me. They are indeed an alien breed once here.
- krrrh 9y ago
  It is amazing. The only tradeoff is that German strangers tend to get upset if you try to pet their dogs or get their attention.
  - mlrtime 9y ago
    Why is that a trade-off?
    - krrrh 9y ago
      It's fun to play with other people's dogs.
manigandham 9y ago
> If the US would take a similar approach, maybe people wouldn't feel the need to fake service animal status. We don't all like having animals in every public place. They are still animals.
kjs3 9y ago
If the US would take a similar approach, maybe people wouldn't feel the need to fake service animal status. This entitlement that someone thinks they have such a right to have their dog with them everywhere that they are justified in breaking the rules is pretty much the core of the problem.

NhanH 9y ago

Just for a counter viewpoint, I have lived in Asia for most of my life and the US in the last couple of years. I greatly appreciate the fact that dogs and pets are not allowed by default in certain places in the US. Regardless of how smart you think a dog is, most of them are barely, if ever, trained.

config_yml 9y ago
Is dog training not mandatory in the US?
- sokoloff 9y ago
  Almost nothing is mandatory in the US. ;) Dog training is certainly not mandatory (at least in any place in the US I've lived).
  - croon 9y ago
    Indeed. Which is a fair ideal. Legally mandated contracts aren't necessary, as long as social contracts are honored. Unfortunately the "complete freedom" usually amounts to complete freedom of personal responsibility.
    - sokoloff 9y ago
      > Unfortunately the "complete freedom" usually amounts to complete freedom of personal responsibility. Usually is far too strong an estimate there, IME. What you are observing I agree is a problem, but a problem caused by a relatively small minority of selfish (or oblivious) assholes.
      - croon 9y ago
        You are of course right, it's an exaggeration I shouldn't make, but it is something I've increasingly noted.
Boothroid 9y ago
It sounds like you have a cultural prejudice towards dogs.

kelnos 9y ago

As someone who is allergic to dogs, I appreciate that they're not permitted in many places in the US (especially restaurants). Actual service animals, as you point out, are incredibly well behaved, but I've definitely been subject to a fake service animal jumping at my lap while seated at a restaurant. Not my favorite thing in the world. If people would actually train their dogs not to be disruptive, I'd mind less. But in my experience, most dogs are rowdy, annoying, and don't keep to themselves even after being instructed to do so by their owners.

maccard 9y ago
I live in Edinburgh - practically every bar here allows dogs. To give an anecdote against your anecdote, I can't think of one occasion where a dog in a bar was behaving any way less than perfect. Most of them curl up under the table, and come out when someone walks by and rubs them. I could make the same point about children, FWIW. Most children are rowdy annoying and don't keep to themselves even after being instructed to do so by their owners. Should children be banned from all restaurants?
- cabalamat 9y ago
  > I live in Edinburgh - practically every bar here allows dogs. To give an anecdote against your anecdote, I can't think of one occasion where a dog in a bar was behaving any way less than perfect. Most of them curl up under the table, and come out when someone walks by and rubs them. I also live in Edinburgh, and my experience is the same as maccard's.
- seanp2k2 9y ago
  They are banned from some: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/food/wp/2017/03/31/thank-you-for-taking-a-stand-customers-flock-after-upscale-restaurant-bans-kids/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/food/wp/2017/03/31/thank... There are more than 1 million restaurants in the United States and the majority of them welcome families with children. So much this. Kids won't appreciate the wine pairing. Reservations increased. I'd love more options for 21 dining, and I'm obviously not alone in this. I really don't understand the outage at establishments which choose to enforce these types of rules when there are so many other places to go.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

taejo 9y ago

> I've noticed is how common it is over here to just allow dogs in restaurants and pubs and on public transportation. That seems to be the default and only some places have "no dogs allowed" signs up. If the US would take a similar approach, maybe people wouldn't feel the need to fake service animal status. A culture of allowing dogs in these places needs to go hand in hand with a culture of training dogs extremely well (and not taking advantage of the facilities that allow dogs, if you don't manage to train yours). Dogs in Germany are almost a different species to those in some other countries; the number of times I've heard dogs barking in the last year could very possibly be counted on one finger, despite seeing many more dogs than in other places. I don't think this would fly in the US, where cultural attitudes tend to be less "we've all got to do our bit to make society pleasant for everyone" and more "it's a free country and this is my dog, I'll train it if I want to".

BrandoElFollito 9y ago
Same in France. For all the dogs around me, humans seem invisble. At least until you explicitly let the dog, at which point he look s at you as if christmas came early. An hour ago I was walking back home from a restaurant and a dog looked at me, well until I realized that there was a bird or something behind me. They are indeed an alien breed once here.
krrrh 9y ago
It is amazing. The only tradeoff is that German strangers tend to get upset if you try to pet their dogs or get their attention.
- mlrtime 9y ago
  Why is that a trade-off?
  - krrrh 9y ago
    It's fun to play with other people's dogs.

manigandham 9y ago

> If the US would take a similar approach, maybe people wouldn't feel the need to fake service animal status. We don't all like having animals in every public place. They are still animals.

kjs3 9y ago

If the US would take a similar approach, maybe people wouldn't feel the need to fake service animal status. This entitlement that someone thinks they have such a right to have their dog with them everywhere that they are justified in breaking the rules is pretty much the core of the problem.